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***OFFICIAL TRUMP BORDER/SHUTDOWN ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD 1/19/19 4PM***
Poast new message in this thread
Date: January 19th, 2019 3:30 PM Author: jet-lagged church 30 minutes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621589) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:34 PM Author: Self-absorbed piazza toilet seat *5 star generals praise Trump for 26 minutes* *Trump comes out as the networks start to cut away* |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:37 PM Author: jet-lagged church lol that was so 180. They knew immediately they'd been played. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621634) |
Date: January 19th, 2019 3:32 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce No one who has ever entered the country illegally, or who has overstayed legal visitation in the US, should ever be permitted to be a citizen.
That includes "dreamers."
Creating a new status for permanent residence, though, for the "dreamers" is a separate answer. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:37 PM Author: jet-lagged church I'm going to wait and see what he says. Most people agree DACA is a fair bargaining chip. I believe in the past he said they could stay but never become citizens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621629) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:38 PM Author: ruddy national fuck that. you can pay for their kids healthcare then (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621642) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:46 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action We’ll deport them anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621681) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:30 PM Author: Carnelian titillating property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622004) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:40 PM Author: Violent Brindle Sound Barrier Athletic Conference No way. With that deal, the Dems get 800k new voters instantly, while we get some money... and then the Permanent Government/Deep State swings into action using lawsuits to stop the Wall from being built. Plus they will send dozens of protesters down to the border in buses to wave signs and lie down in front of the bulldozers etc.
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:42 PM Author: jet-lagged church It would need to be DACA in exchange for everything. everify, the wall, etc.
Edit: and yeah, it would have to be "AFTER the wall is built, we'll do x, y, and z" |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:46 PM Author: Spectacular hissy fit love of her life i believe that's how the other wall legislation was supposed to work.
but that's why the wall is so important along with patching up all the other issues. this shit will keep happening over and over again. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:44 PM Author: Spectacular hissy fit love of her life yeah. we're being GAPED by our own laws. pretty frustrating. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621663) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:49 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action I’m hoping that his announcement is that he’s declaring martial law and will use the military as a dragnet to round up and deport every illegal in the US. The dems would cave pretty quickly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621698) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:59 PM Author: Curious institution jew cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621751) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 3:51 PM Author: jet-lagged church https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LMKwsayAZE (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621709) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:01 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621767) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:03 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park so he is going to offer the bridge act and pelosi is going to say no
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:05 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk if pelosi agrees to anything remotely related to a wall we're going to punish the democrats severely in 2020. no compromise on this issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621797) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:04 PM Author: fiercely-loyal ticket booth Fuck trump. He can take his compromise and shove it up his fat ass (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621788) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:04 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park i think he is only offering it because he knows they will say no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621791) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:05 PM Author: fiercely-loyal ticket booth Oh what a negotiator (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621795) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Provocative olive son of senegal that was supposed to be the point of his special border speech a couple weeks ago. today was supposed to be the hammer drop, where the consequences are revealed for democrat inaction. not yet another mewling request for cooperation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621817) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:04 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk he has no bargaining power. he's basically a lame duck and he knows it. there will be no wall. even if he got money for it the next president will just cancel the project before shovels are in the ground. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621790) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:06 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action He has vast emergency powers that he can threaten to use. His leverage is that he could literally make himself a dictator over night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621801) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:06 PM Author: Demanding Misanthropic Ladyboy Um i believe he wrote The Art Of The Deal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621802) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:07 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk bargaining power =/= bargaining skills. hth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621812) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:07 PM Author: jet-lagged church Democrats already saying they'll reject it lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621811) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk that's what we (their base) demand. no compromise with GRU agents on matters of US policy. sorry. find an American next time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621818) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:13 PM Author: Mind-boggling gaming laptop parlour Right. That’s who Dems want to deal with as they lobby on behalf of their beloved illegals— an American. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621863) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:22 PM Author: Disgusting background story business firm we (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621949) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:08 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce GEOTUS! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621815) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk lol at this camera angle that has the mic blocking half his mouth. who set this shit up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621821) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: jet-lagged church Holy shit here we gooooo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621822) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:09 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale ljl at this. who wrote this drek? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621825) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: Violent Brindle Sound Barrier Athletic Conference 1 IN 3 WOMEN! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621831) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk lol at this joker speaking in front of a George Washington painting. the contrast isn't doing him any favors. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621834) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:11 PM Author: Big Obsidian Plaza Shut up fag (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621845) |
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Date: January 20th, 2019 1:03 AM Author: Fighting Insanely Creepy Chapel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37624474) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:10 PM Author: Spectacular hissy fit love of her life Trump should take a page out of the Mayor Richard Daley playbook and pull a Meigs Field.
for those unaware, he wanted to turn a small airport on prime real estate into a parks and other shit and was getting a lot of pushback and stalling.
so, he went in in the middle of the night and destroyed the runways.
sometimes, if you want something, you just have to take it. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:11 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621842) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:11 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale he seems out of breath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621839) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:12 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce "I intend to keep that promise, one way or another." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621848) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:13 PM Author: jet-lagged church Followed by "Congress needs to come together and work it out."
Yawn. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:13 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater THIS ISN'T ABOUT 'DRUGS', DUMBASS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621862) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:14 PM Author: jet-lagged church He says that for the "racism" accusations (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621869) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:15 PM Author: Spectacular hissy fit love of her life cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621881) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:19 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater time to push back FIRMLY on the idea that declining to import the entire southern hemisphere is 'racist' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621924) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action He said it’s bad for wages (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621892) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action No DACA deal it sounds like. Just a bunch of fluff. This sounds good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621883) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:18 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce Poasted too soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621913) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:16 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk i miss having a president who doesn't sound like a retard. this guy can barely talk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621891) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:17 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action Yes much better to have an eloquent POTUS who fucks over the country? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621899) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:18 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale he's out of breath and tired. he's also terrible at reading speeches. he just needs to go off script. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621911) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:17 PM Author: jet-lagged church So far he wants:
Humanitarian aid (?) More border agents More judges to clear the court backlog Drug-detection tech at ports of entry Wall
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: ungodly principal's office nibblets So nothing to solve the core problem of employment for illegals?
OH WHAT A DEALMAKER |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:21 PM Author: Spectacular hissy fit love of her life how do i become one of these judges? just give me a gavel and i'll work 16 hrs a day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621940) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:17 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action Uh oh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621901) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:18 PM Author: Razzmatazz school He looks pretty orange outside of the eyes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621905) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:18 PM Author: jet-lagged church 3 years of legislative relief for DACA recipients
700k impacted |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:19 PM Author: Razzmatazz school Dems won't go for this but he is going to force a vote. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621922) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:19 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621927) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: jet-lagged church Gives them one last chance. Most people will see this as a reasonable compromise. If the Dems balk he'll probably just say "fuck it" and do national emergency. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621936) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:19 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action 3 year reprieve for 300,000 DACA criminals (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621916) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:19 PM Author: jet-lagged church 3 more years of TPS
Affects 300k |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: out-of-control fragrant shrine prole fuck trump for cucking on daca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621932) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action He’s not. Just a 3 year delay before we deport them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621938) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce This is damned reasonable.
So the Dems and MSM will of course call it racist. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:20 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale can senate even get 60 votes for this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621935) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:23 PM Author: sienna dopamine dingle berry i missed it, what did he offer/say
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:24 PM Author: gold talented affirmative action He said that Illegals will be turned into dog food if Dems don’t cave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621959) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:25 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce The 5.7 billion for the border, as previously known.
A three year protected status for 700k DACA and 300k other fake refugees to give Congress time to write new laws.
Government opens.
Senate votes on it this week. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:26 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale so, 6 dem senators need to vote yes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621972) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: Bateful Greedy Home Lettuce And see how what the House does. It forces the Dems' hands. Gets them on the record. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621980) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:25 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater Mexico has 24 hours to cut a check for the wall or we invade (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621968) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:25 PM Author: jet-lagged church See above
Border enhancements:
More tech for drug-detection at ports of entry More border agents More judges to clear the backlog A wall
Concessions:
3-year extensions on DACA and TPS (affects about 1 million people) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale pretty damn reasonable. dems not gonna accept it though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37621978) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:29 PM Author: sienna dopamine dingle berry i mean why would dems every agree to that?
he gets everything he wants and all they get is DACA can kicked down the road for three years? |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:27 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park Not a ridiculous offer. In a normal world the dems would come back with a counter - like permanent DACA relief
But, in a world where the DEM presidential candidates are calling to eliminate ICE and for open borders, hard to see them agreeing to ANYTHING.
Now they seem to be falling back on "we need to reopen the government first before we negotiate" - which I don't think is going to persuade anyone other than the extreme left.
One silver lining of all this is when they do reopen the gov't, it will be very hard for Dems to play this same trick next time in order to get some bullshit they want. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:30 PM Author: jet-lagged church "we need to reopen the government first before we negotiate"
Didn't he ask Schumer if they'd discuss a wall if he reopened the government, Schumer said no, and Trump was like "bye-bye"? |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:34 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park yea they've said the wall is immoral multiple times (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622038) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:29 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater so can these DACA ppl continue shitting out birthright citizen babies and then 'chain migrating' their entire extended families? the multiplier here is like 10M ppl. all new Dem voters. forget it. DEPORT THEM THIS WEEK. come back to the wall later. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:31 PM Author: beta crusty quadroon Yeah but 800M on dogs bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622006) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:32 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater this is all a huge con. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622020) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:33 PM Author: beta crusty quadroon This is the way things work. We’re not going to get what we fully want. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622035) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:37 PM Author: violet sanctuary volcanic crater you fool, you're not going to get ANYTHING. go back and read about how the ORIGINAL Reagan Amnesty in 1986 was supposed to work. they promised the MOON in exchange for amnesty -- employer crackdowns, barriers, enhanced border security, etc... literally NOTHING happened except we ended up with about 10M new Mexicans when all was said and done. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 5:32 PM Author: swashbuckling whorehouse The only alternative, if you don’t want to make a deal, would be for trump to declare a national emergency/martial law and ignore judges who rule against him regarding his emergency powers. Our republic would go bye bye but maybe that is necessary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622320) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:34 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park they can do that now. shit, tourists can do this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622039) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:35 PM Author: beta crusty quadroon He did say it’s a step toward a larger fix. A larger fix that I don’t think will ever happen until it’s too late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622047) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:48 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park how do you fix birthright citizenship? The only hope is the supreme court decides we were just wrong about the constitution, which will never happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622106) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:48 PM Author: beta crusty quadroon Yeah I don’t think there’s a fix. It’s pretty fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622108) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:31 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk Dems need to oppose anything he offers, purely on principle. nothing he wants will be good for the country, so give him nothing. don't allow the GRU to dictate American policy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622007) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:32 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk Reminder: this guy will be in jail 3 years from now. there's no reason to "negotiate" will him on anything. just wait it out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622027) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:34 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park you really needed to post twice to make this point? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622041) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:34 PM Author: Black Hunting Ground Location so, DACA is unconstitutional but should be extended for three years?
In all seriousness, this should be a no brainier deal, and the Senate probably votes yes, but it dies in the House bc Pelosi refuses to negotiate |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:37 PM Author: Learning disabled grizzly locale I don't see how even the senate votes yes. 6 dems flip? not likely (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622057) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:41 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park the only reason i have any optimism is that Turtle must know what he is doing and maybe he has done some groundwork here.
But either way it is pointless as Pelosi wants everyone to think she is co-president now. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:39 PM Author: pontificating mauve liquid oxygen milk there's no value to Democrats in what Trump is proposing. we can say no and the dreamers will still be here. you guys have got nothing to offer that we want. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622072) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:58 PM Author: Curious institution jew This is why mass deportations need to start (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622142) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:41 PM Author: ungodly principal's office nibblets Why in the world would dems vote for kicking the can on DACA in exchange for a down payment on a wall? They can already stop the wall for the next 2 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622078) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:42 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park the concern would be that politically keeping the government closed for open borders might not be viable
this is why dems like durbin are focused on the "we need to open the government before we can talk" line.
but i agree with your point. Dems are controlled by the ultra left who are happy as clams to keep the govt closed. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:46 PM Author: ungodly principal's office nibblets Americans blame Trump, who claimed credit, and the GOP senate, which refused to re-pass a bill it passed a month ago to reopen government. Keep the government closed through 2020 and see who comes out ahead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622098) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:47 PM Author: beta crusty quadroon A third party? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622102) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 4:49 PM Author: beady-eyed trailer park I don't think americans care for Trump or Pelosi or that either of them is particularly popular right now.
But being pro-open borders, for disbanding ICE seems like a losing strategy. Dems like Gillibrand clearly disagree with me on that. |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 5:38 PM Author: swashbuckling whorehouse This is just posturing to make the emergency order and martial law look more reasonable next week. I hope he goes full-hog. POTUS for life, disband congress and the courts, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622350) |
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Date: January 19th, 2019 6:59 PM Author: fiercely-loyal ticket booth holy shit - 180 if true (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4181340&forum_id=2#37622726) |