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Why are companies so stupid re: raises/promotions? Rather lose talent that give
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:31 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business more money or a title change
So that person leaves, they hire someone else (and often pay them more anyway), and have to go through the whole process of getting them onboard and up to speed
Why not just nurture talent you already have?
Is it seriously CLIQUE THEORY in IRL action? That once you're "seen" at a certain level, you can almost never overcome the hierarchy? |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:18 PM Author: Exciting boltzmann There's a certain number of employees who will remain just because they are pussies, so the company saves money on all of those employees by forcing you to interview elsewhere if you want a raise. That would be my guess. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635868) |
Date: January 21st, 2019 2:35 PM Author: titillating business firm associate It's pretty stupid in a lot of cases, especially because Americans are so tight lipped about pay.
It costs a shit load of time and money and headaches to replace a decently good employee in many cases. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:36 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig most employees are beta fags who won't leave. probably makes more sense to never give raises to 90% of good employees, and lose 10% who actually will bolt.
changing employers often isn't so easy. your commute will be longer, or god forbid you'd have to move to a different city.
GC has all sorts of mechanisms in place to make it difficult to change jobs. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:38 PM Author: snowy weed whacker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37633947) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:29 PM Author: Dashing station round eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635103) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:19 PM Author: Exciting boltzmann (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635877) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:26 PM Author: Sapphire fiercely-loyal mexican Cr changing employers or moving is incredibly tough once you have a family, especially if your spouse also works. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635932) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:31 PM Author: haunting jet-lagged meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635975) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:43 PM Author: Coral parlour death wish This premise seems more applicable to suburban/office park f500 type jobs than highly competitive industries in a red hot job market.
If you screw a finance guy on his bonus he’ll have another offer by the end of the conversation |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:44 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig finance might be the only industry where it doesn't look bad if you jump around all the time. GC generally stigmatizes you for moving around too much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37633969) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 2:52 PM Author: Coral parlour death wish By GC you mean logic? If you move around a lot it seems possible there’s something wrong with you that’s kept you from sticking around. If anything paranoia about lawsuits make it harder to get the information needed to make good hiring choices - people that suck can hide it for a while (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634024) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:22 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig the lawsuit thing is exactly the point. it's good for GC that it's expensive and risky to hire a new employee. keeps people stuck where they are.
GC could have created it such that if you're at the same job for a while, it's possible there's something wrong with you that you can't get a better job paying significantly more money so you're stuck with your 2% annual raise. but they didn't. it's better for GC to stigmatize leaving. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:27 PM Author: misunderstood lake home tech is like this too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634641) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:29 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634656) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:24 PM Author: effete windowlicker giraffe No, they will hire someone else who's younger and willing to accept less pay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634612) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:40 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business Very few people ITT actually responded to the OP.
I guess DBG might be right, they just assume you won't leave. But there are always signs. People often ask for more and the company says NO.
In some cases, though, I think they should say YES. They lose an employee, then have a lot of costs/time to get a new person up to speed. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:43 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig they assume you won't leave, and don't truly care if you do. everyone is replaceable, and it's better for the employer overall if they don't give anyone raises and only a few people have the balls to follow through.
it's simple game theory. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:41 PM Author: Slippery address recruiters usually charge 2/3 of the sign on salary to get a replacement too, btw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634769) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:44 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig it's usually 25% in biglaw. and plenty of fields don't have "recruiters" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634793) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:44 PM Author: Slippery address it is definitely NOT "usually 25% in biglaw" - GTFO with this completely false information. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634798) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:45 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig delete ur account
When a legal employer hires a candidate that was first introduced by a recruiter, the search firm is entitled to a fee (generally 25% of the first-year salary).
https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/60401/FAQ-about-Legal-Recruiting/ |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:47 PM Author: Slippery address oh well you had a link (and it's not talking about biglaw) so U SMART! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634817) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:49 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig jfc you're stupid. it's precisely talking about biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634828) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:53 PM Author: Slippery address *posts quote that doesn't mention "big law" in an article where the word "big" or any large firm name is present*
*is a fucking idiot*
why are you here? ur clearly not T14 material. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:56 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig BCG is a biglaw HH firm run by harrison barnes, you moron (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634870) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:59 PM Author: Slippery address (called out, changing goalposts) just DIAF already. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634892) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:13 PM Author: Coral parlour death wish You sound retarded (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635829) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:31 PM Author: haunting jet-lagged meetinghouse LMAO at how fucking mad you are all the time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635983) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:52 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business lmao, MOST jobs at companies are NOT involving any kind of recruiter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634847) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:53 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig this pumo to whom ur responding is a total moron, obviously (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634850) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:54 PM Author: Slippery address (literal fucking moronic T14 reject) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634857) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:43 PM Author: Carmine idiotic institution party of the first part TWIST: you just aint that talented, son. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634784) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:52 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business (((GC dick sucker))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634849) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:59 PM Author: Carmine idiotic institution party of the first part lol didn't you just tell me you were "concerned for my mental health" on this board? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634894) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:52 PM Author: Beta boyish crackhouse circlehead Companies are increasingly opposed to training any employee in any way whatsoever. Easier to hire someone who bullshits their resume than actually elevate from within. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634842) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:55 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces Lol if they’re not willing to promote you or give you a raise, it’s because you’re not talented. 95% of all jobs are bullshit busy work that doesn’t require much training or smarts to do anyway. Even in fields with specialized knowledge (tech etc), thousands or people are equally qualified or have the requisite knowledge to do the job. They will listen to the demands of somebody they find irreplaceable. You are not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634864) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:57 PM Author: free-loading chartreuse coldplay fan hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634874) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:57 PM Author: Heady Market tell us about the talent it took to land your job through connections (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634876) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:59 PM Author: misunderstood lake home you will never not be a dumb retarded gook who wishes she was born white (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634887) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 4:59 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business Jesus Christ, nutella, you come across as exactly the kind of person you claim not to be. Totally disconnected from reality, the very reality that most of the people from your childhood cannot escape. Stanford and years of uber-elite employment has caused you to truly not understand what it's like working for a normal employer in any sort of normal part of the United States. What's happening is not always a sign of bad talent. It's a sign of bad management. The system is broken. You work for it, so you need to promote it. But jesus christ -- you're totally broken. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634890) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:03 PM Author: Beta boyish crackhouse circlehead after enough time, everyone who makes it eventually loses sight of reality in favor of justifying their own position/success. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634927) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:03 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces Contradictory statement saying I don’t know normal employers and then saying I work for the system and therefore need to promote it.
My employer is indeed “normal” in the sense that lot of employees (myself included) are totally replaceable. Lots of people can do what I do and for much less money. The key is whether or not they view you as such. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:24 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business you work for the elite management of the system which has inoculated yourself from normal workers, no contradiction, c-suite knows jackshit about the struggles of middle managers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635066) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 11:00 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces I am not c suite. I work for a small company where losing people actually hurts the bottom line so they don’t replace frequently. That’s how I know at big companies it works differently precisely because makes economic sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37637437) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:00 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig this misses the point. untalented people can actually leave and get paid more at a different company. the problem is most don't have the balls to actually do it, so it doesn't make sense for a company to listen to anyone's demands unless they're executive-level. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634897) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 11:04 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces OP’s thread is why companies are willing to pay more to lose “talent.” The entire point is that they aren’t losing talent and they know people won’t leave anyway so save money and don’t give raises. How is that not for the benefit of the bottom line and the shareholders? The system isn’t “broken” as it works as intended for the benefit of the shareholders. The employee is merely an untalented cog (unless they perceive you as not one). If you don’t like it, get another higher paying job offer and see if your company will beat it or jump ship. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37637482) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:11 PM Author: Excitant Doctorate Ok, let's say you're right. But then why does it make sense that it is easier to get a raise/promotion by getting a job somewhere else than by staying where you are? Doesn't it make sense that it would be the other way around? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634985) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 11:01 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces it doesn’t make economic sense for the company to promote and raise internally when 90% of the people don’t jump ship. It only makes sense for you as an individual to jump ship and look out for yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37637449) |
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Date: January 22nd, 2019 12:18 AM Author: Excitant Doctorate People with knowledge that it takes years to build up jumping ship is expensive. Getting someone to that point in a company is expensive. Promoting from within instead of hiring externally costs less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37637981) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 6:09 PM Author: appetizing spot this seems like an arbitrary hot take (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635362) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:17 PM Author: Magical den You miss the point of the op by a mile. They touch on the transaction costs of turnover. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635860) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:19 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business but she doesn't care, she wants to SLAM the door shut behind her as hard as possible, that ensures she makes it ... fuck everyone else (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635882) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:20 PM Author: Hairraiser sepia filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635883) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 10:33 PM Author: Saffron judgmental feces The transaction costs of turnover are lower than the transaction cost of promotion and giving people raises. You leave and the cost of hiring and “training” people which is basically just teaching to use the company email and signing HR policy docs is not high. There are eager and willing people to take your job for lower pay. In house jobs get inundated with qualified resumes, jobs requiring no professional degree get even more. Don’t blame businesses for being economically rational. They pay or promote you if they perceive you as indispensable or “talented” even if it’s an illusion. I have no desire to shut the door behind me; im just telling you how it works in corporate america. They’re going to call your bluff if you don’t have a better offer.
As they said in the wire, “the games out there, it’s either play or get played.”
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:09 PM Author: brilliant indecent shrine factory reset button Humans are dumb and companies know how to use it against them.
Teams don't share salary/promotion information with each other. Companies brutally take advantage of this, and most people don't discuss it because they think they're the one making more than the rest of their contemporaries (LOL).
HR systems make it easier to replace or recruit new hires than expand or bump up an existing role. That often requires an employee review and exec approval, making *someone* higher up explicitly put their neck out for you. VPs and department heads often don't want the extra vision on their work just like a low level employee.
Many at the top don't look at promotions or raises from a retention standpoint, but as a "pot of goal at the end of the rainbow" type of thing. I've legit had people tell me they can't give them to everyone because then it devalues it. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:36 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business very cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635142) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:10 PM Author: contagious chapel Lol. Talent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634976) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 5:10 PM Author: Excitant Doctorate Short answer: because a lot of this is run by HR for HR's benefit. Promoting from within doesn't justify the existence of HR. People quitting and needing to hire new people does. Guess what ends up commonly happening? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37634980) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:25 PM Author: Sapphire fiercely-loyal mexican I've never seen an employer suffer much after someone leaves. This is all huge employers though.
I imagine people are less replaceable at smaller enterprises. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:27 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business It absolutely hurts specific teams. Nothing really ever hurts the entire company or the c-suite. They can blame others.
But if you're a Director and you have a superstar manager who leaves, it can fuck up workflow and make your life suck. You have to hire someone, which sucks, hope they work out, and it takes up a lot of time and resources.
Everything in a corp is a ponzi scheme designed to pass the buck to someone lower. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:29 PM Author: Sapphire fiercely-loyal mexican It hurts morale etc. I've just never seen results really suffer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37635964) |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:31 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business It doesn't because they'll just shift shit around. Metrics will be changed. It doesn't matter. One person will never hurt the bottom line. But it can really fuck with a team's metrics.
If you need to approve 10 widgets a quarter and the superstar leaves, the time spent recruiting, hiring, on boarding, and then of course assuming they can catch up, can, in many cases, make it harder to hit 10 widgets.
Of course the C-suite just fucks over that Director, so they confine the problem to that team and blame someone else. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:38 PM Author: swashbuckling roommate public bath everyone is replaceable, or should be if you're a decent executive/ceo. if your company is significantly hurt by a "manager" level, or even C suite type person leaving, then your company is fucked anyway.
i suppose its different for small tech companies but i think the above applies or should apply to 98% of corporate america. everything should be standardized or proceduralized and report driven such that you can stick in the next semi-competent cog to manage to the reports.
if you happen to get someone who actually IMPROVES the machine autonomously that's gravy, and a certain percentage of employees will do this regardless of pay. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 7:50 PM Author: pearly 180 place of business what is "report driven"
and btw, Mr. Ford, your vision, even if correct, sounds like hell -- people really are commodities |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 11:08 PM Author: swashbuckling roommate public bath Strange you have not realized the hell you are already in. Sad to be the one to welcome you.
Report driven = measuring what needs to be done a22nd having reliable and repeatable metrics to guide underling actions. |
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Date: January 21st, 2019 8:02 PM Author: nubile center "Talent" in the working world is almost always either a complete myth or totally irrelevant to the needs of GC. Revenue is all that matters. If you are directly bringing in revenue, you can get paid according to performance and demand raises. 99% of employees are not revenue-producing, so complaining about wasted talent in those jerbs just misses the point of GC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4183092&forum_id=2#37636149) |