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Golf MFEs: Do Raw Scores (Not Relative To Par) Mean Anything? #golf
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Date: May 17th, 2019 6:55 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca media going nuts that brooks has the lowest 36 hole major score at 128, breaking various 130's that were shot on par-72's.
i've always thought that comparing raw scores for the purposes of major stats when some courses are 70, 71 or 71's is kind of retarded. am i right? |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 6:56 PM Author: Jet-lagged hunting ground associate eh it's like HR records despite some stadiums being smaller, still a big deal but not necessarily the *optimal* way to measure performance (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38250886) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 6:58 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca but we have an objectively better stat that we use all the fucking time and that's just as easy to use -- scores relative to par.
there is no HR stat that's calibrated to ballparks, unless ur some weird stats aspie. |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 7:01 PM Author: Jet-lagged hunting ground associate stfu OPS+ rulez (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38250898) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 7:06 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca sabremetric numbers are clunky and hard to use. everyone knows what 40 home runs means.
the ironic thing about the raw golf scores is nobody knows wtf a 276 means without seriously thinking about it. everyone instantly knows what it means to win the masters at -12. |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 7:09 PM Author: Jet-lagged hunting ground associate I get it. But the point is most ppl talk about records of (1) under par & (2) under par v. the field. This is a rare instance where the shitstat is being put out there. So what? If someone said, "zomg Mike Trout just broke the OPS+ record for the year!" ppl would say "mkay" and we'd move on. You can do the same with this state of "lowest score EVA" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38250921) |
Date: May 17th, 2019 6:56 PM Author: ebony cerebral toilet seat You’re correct. Name something, anything, that the media has been correct about in the past 7 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38250887) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 7:09 PM Author: Deep violent immigrant the only scoring record that really means anything is margin of victory (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38250919) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 8:26 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca MOV isnt always probative. iirc there was a major where tiger and someone else both totally eclipsed the field. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38251211) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 8:33 PM Author: Deep violent immigrant (chris dimarco) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38251240) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 8:43 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca yes, ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38251271) |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 9:15 PM Author: pearly ladyboy It means something even if it’s not a perfect measure.
Tons (probably close to half) of all non-Augusta majors have been Par 70. Rarely are they above 71.
Course rating is what actually matters anyway when measuring what you are talking about. Par is kind of pointless when comparing courses.
It would be much more likely an outlier for the total score record would be caused by an easy as fuck par 72 |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 10:03 PM Author: Deep violent immigrant par "above 71" isnt rare except at US opens. st andrews and whistling straits are the most played non-augusta major courses over the past 15 years, both par 72. a lot of the other PGA venues have been too. hazeltine, medinah, kiawah etc
and LJL at course rating being anywhere close to accurately measuring the difficulty of a course for pros during a major |
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Date: May 17th, 2019 10:18 PM Author: pearly ladyboy Yea obviously you’d need to make a separate rating for the tournament. But it would vary much more than freaking par does. I’d bet some par 72 ratings for majors would be less than some par 70’s. My point was that par really isn’t that great of a measurement for his purpose.
Most of the Open Championship courses are 70 or 71. But yea “rare” was too strong of a word. |
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Date: May 18th, 2019 11:47 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca why not some metric by comparing the winning score to the average or median score among guys who made the cut? seems like that would be an assessment of how dominant the winner was at any given tournament. taking an average of guys who made the cut seems like an objective way to measure how tough the course is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38255359) |
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Date: May 19th, 2019 12:56 AM Author: Histrionic rose lay It doesn't mean shit except when talking about shooting 59. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38255492) |
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Date: May 19th, 2019 1:22 AM Author: Cocky Market Macaca (david duval) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38255537) |
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Date: May 19th, 2019 12:57 AM Author: narrow-minded tattoo That's a trash gimmick stat like who has the most pickoff ATTEMPTS wins. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38255497) |
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Date: May 19th, 2019 6:41 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca rofl this fag is gonna win by 1 stroke (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38257676) |
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Date: May 20th, 2019 11:12 AM Author: Turquoise Chest-beating Kitty National ppl look at both total score and relation to par. it's generally tougher to shoot X under par on a par 70 vs 72 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38260620) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:37 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca bump for ironside (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273165) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:42 PM Author: comical rambunctious dilemma i agree with this and thought the exact same thing when the media mentioned this on Friday.
i suppose the argument is that par 5's are easier to birdie/eagle than par 4s, so a pair of 65s on a par 70 is perhaps slightly harder than a pair of 67s on a par 72, even though both are -10. |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:49 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca yep, a 65 on a 70 is slightly harder than a 67 on a 72. BUT, a 65 on a 70 is significantly easier than a 65 on a 72. that's why it's retarded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273232) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:54 PM Author: comical rambunctious dilemma maybe, maybe not, assuming those additional 2 birdies (or 1 eagle) are from extra perhaps easier par 5s.
but it's ALSO bullshit because they are keeping the record across tons of different courses. |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:58 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca cr. why cant they create a metric like mentioned above -- http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38255359 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273265) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:02 PM Author: comical rambunctious dilemma that's better, although you're sort of making the popular vote/EC mistake here. guys aren't necessarily trying to maximize low scores. if you go into a final round up 5, it doesn't matter whether you win by 8 or by 5, so you might play more safely to try not to get in dbl bogey+ situations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273282) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:06 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca true, but that's true in any sport -- yet MOV is always discussed by the pundit class... or shit like overall runs scored over a 162 game season. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273304) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:20 PM Author: Deep violent immigrant holy shit do these threads suck when you two start talking to each other in them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273374) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:22 PM Author: comical rambunctious dilemma i agree. it's useful to a degree, but then it's usefulness decreases at the margin.
for example, in the NBA, i'm not convinced a 73-win team is better than a 70-win team. as you note, nobody is playing to win 82 games. |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:24 PM Author: Cocky Market Macaca cr, most dominance stats are largely irrelevant at the margins, unless we're talking about a sport where you need to perform your absolute best and don't know what the competition will do (like track or swimming). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273396) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 4:47 PM Author: maize thriller base TBF, a lot of these par 70 courses were par 71/72 that had to be converted due to players' increasing distance. Yes, 63 on Bethpage black as a par-71 with one of the 500 yard par 4s being back to a 530 yard par 5 is slightly more impressive than 63 with it being a a par-70 with a 500 yard par 4. But 63 with the course as a par 70 is more impressive than 64 with the course as a par 71. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273221) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:00 PM Author: Razzmatazz school cafeteria multi-billionaire (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273275) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2019 5:20 PM Author: Histrionic rose lay CR. Really it comes down the course rating/slope at the time they're playing it. Total strokes to par is really a meaningless stat as far as records go. There are -1 rounds in tough conditions on US Open layouts that are more impressive than the odd 62-64 in good scoring conditions. Margin of victory is the defining stat when it comes to dominance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4263912&forum_id=2#38273375) |