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Libs: Time to stop going over "nonviolent" GUN OFFENDERS

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/deblasio-guns-pri...
.,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::
  07/11/19
...
.,.,....,.,.,.,:,:,...,:::,....,:,.,.:...,:.::,.
  07/11/19
C&p please
michael doodikoff
  07/11/19
By (((Emily Bazelon))) Ms. Bazelon, a staff writer at The...
.,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::
  07/11/19
I don't even understand this. Libs want guns to be illegal ...
Buck "The Club" Paulette
  07/11/19
It's just inching towards explicit differentiation of law en...
leolenin
  07/11/19
...
><<(^((*>
  07/11/19
It'll created two sets of laws: most normal, decent, law abi...
War Machine
  07/11/19
decent law abiding people are not the people committing crim...
leolenin
  07/11/19
Obviously. What about what I typed implied that?
War Machine
  07/11/19
Nothing I am not arguing. Its just absurd
leolenin
  07/11/19
...
donny (retired)
  07/11/19
Not really. In the case of guns, people like this columni...
War Machine
  07/11/19
...
Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1
  07/11/19
So you think her position is as long as there are guns minor...
leolenin
  07/11/19
Libs want minorities committing crimes with guns. Because m...
Lemma Time
  07/11/19
...
Buck "The Club" Paulette
  07/11/19
He doesn't believe in personal agency for marginalized group...
War Machine
  07/11/19
(Black Klansman)
Windsor Canadian
  07/11/19
As a black man, do you ever worry that that will substantial...
Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1
  07/11/19
but only if you are a "youth"
.,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::
  07/11/19
posted about how some white libs I know basically want two s...
Don Kihote
  07/11/19
Hate crimes vs get out of jail free cards
GOY GUN NUT
  07/11/19
Urban blacks with guns are OK.
Proctolgia Fugax + HSV1 + Androgenic Alopecia
  07/11/19
white UMC libs are really going all-in on the "crime is...
A Jurisprudence is Performed
  07/11/19
this is why the suburbs aren't dead yet
Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1
  07/11/19
there's a huge disconnect between "thinkpiece" wri...
A Jurisprudence is Performed
  07/11/19
*leans into mic* Urban blacks ARE thugs with guns
.,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::
  07/11/19
not the 50 year old grandmas. The under 30 twgs don't (and ...
A Jurisprudence is Performed
  07/11/19
lol you mean all the 50 yo grandmas shouting that they son i...
.,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::
  07/11/19
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3312770&mc=1...
acorn2525
  07/11/19
“Eighty percent of New York City’s drop in homic...
Hysterical bitchmade deepstate faggot
  07/11/19
...
dont run Clinton Epstein seeswhoops never mind lol
  07/11/19
Of course. How do you think they get funding? It's no dif...
Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1
  07/11/19
as someone who does analysis for a living, I completely agre...
.,,,..,,...,.,.,:,:,,...,::,...,:,...:..,:.::,.
  07/11/19
How does this happen? Is it the patrons saying, “we wa...
Hysterical bitchmade deepstate faggot
  07/11/19
Bro it's social sciences, what do you think
postgres
  07/11/19
so take the peak year of all murders in the 70's, increase t...
t( ^-^ t)
  07/11/19
Same. I don't believe in any "facts" or "stat...
alias.php
  07/11/19
There are huge swathes of possibilities that are prohibited ...
leolenin
  07/11/19
also, ban guns and the arrest the NRA
acorn2525
  07/11/19
If libs were serious about gun deaths I could help them cut ...
gibberish
  07/11/19


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 8:55 AM
Author: .,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/11/opinion/deblasio-guns-prison.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514103)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:02 AM
Author: .,.,....,.,.,.,:,:,...,:::,....,:,.,.:...,:.::,.




(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514118)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:12 AM
Author: michael doodikoff

C&p please

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514142)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:18 AM
Author: .,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::


By (((Emily Bazelon)))

Ms. Bazelon, a staff writer at The New York Times Magazine, is the author of “Charged. The New Movement to Transform American Prosecution and End Mass Incarceration.”

Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York took a break from his long-shot presidential campaign this week to attack a program in Brooklyn that keeps young people who’ve been convicted of having an unlicensed gun out of prison. It was a strange move. Brooklyn’s diversion program is doing good, not harm, the evidence shows. It’s an effort the mayor could showcase on the national stage, an example of the city’s success at incubating reforms.

But at a news conference on Monday, Mr. de Blasio sounded anything but visionary.

The trouble started when the New York Police Department chief, Terence Monahan, suggested at the same gathering that the blame for a rise in shootings so far this year lay with plea deals in Brooklyn “that result in little or no jail time.” It’s true that a fraction of young people charged with illegal gun possession in Brooklyn — but not for shooting anyone or even brandishing a gun — are accepted into a yearlong program, run by the office of District Attorney Eric Gonzalez, called Youth and Communities in Partnership, or Y.C.P. Participants meet weekly with a social worker, adhere to a curfew, must work or take classes and complete dozens of hours of community service. If they graduate from the program, they are spared prison and the burden of a felony record.

Y. C. P. offers a narrow escape hatch from New York’s punitive gun laws, which are among the harshest in the country. The state imposes a 3½-year mandatory minimum prison sentence for people who are convicted of the maximum charge for possessing a loaded gun without a license. In some states, possessing a gun without a permit isn’t even a crime. Other states treat the offense as a misdemeanor or make exceptions for having an unlicensed gun in one’s home. But in New York, gun control has taken a form that includes mandatory prison sentences.

The New York Police Department has long credited “Guns = Prison,” as the slogan goes, for much of New York’s amazing crime drop. And it is amazing: Crime has fallen steeply in New York over a quarter century, to a level not seen since the 1950s. In 1990, there were 2,245 killings in the city. In 2018, there were fewer than 300.

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Yes, there is evidence that civil laws requiring gun permits reduce gun deaths. But it’s much harder to find the same effect for mandatory prison sentences. Eighty percent of New York City’s drop in homicides happened before the strict mandatory sentences for gun possession went into effect in 2006. Researchers have failed to find evidence that compulsory prison time for gun possession resulted in a drop in violent crime in Florida, Virginia, Massachusetts and Chicago.

No Y.C.P. graduates or participants are suspects in any of the shootings. Mr. Gonzalez said gang members are shooting each other, and his office points out that two-thirds of homicides and shootings in north Brooklyn are unsolved. “When the police make those arrests, the number will drop,” Mr. Gonzalez said at a news conference of his own this week. He was there to announce the charging of 21 alleged gang members in connection with two murders and three other shootings.

In Brooklyn as a whole, total shootings are down by two this year compared to the same time last year. Manhattan accounts for 21 of the 24 additional shootings citywide.

For a book I published this year, and a companion podcast, I talked to dozens of Y.C.P. participants and followed some of them through their year in the program and beyond. The program isn’t perfect. One big problem was that the police seemed to target some participants, arresting them for minor infractions like smoking marijuana or jumping a subway turnstile. While Chief Monahan complained that the records of Y.C.P. participants are “sealed,” that’s only true for the public. The police can see the records, and if law enforcement singles them out while they’re in the program, that would limit the program’s capacity to offer a true second chance.

And yet, nonetheless, 330 young people who completed Y.C.P. and a smaller similar program between 2006 and 2016 had a 22 percent lower rearrest rate within three years than others in their 16-to-24 age group who went to prison and then were released. Brooklyn’s programs also had a relatively low rate of future felony convictions of 7 percent (along with another 9 percent for misdemeanors).

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In my reporting for my book, I watched young people benefit from Y.C.P.’s oversight — the impetus that they get a job or complete school, and most of all, from working with skilled and dedicated social workers who helped them build a more solid foundation for their lives. A few participants expressed regret when their year in the program ended because they’d be losing its support. One texted his social worker: “I just wanted to say thank you for everything you did for me. Not a lot of people care what happens to anyone and you made sure I was on the right path to the future.” He’s now a sophomore at Kingsborough Community College.

Y.C.P. started in 1997, in partnership with some Brooklyn churches, out of a recognition that “not everyone who carries a gun is a shooter,” as Anthony Newerls, who runs a violence-prevention program in Brownsville, told me. “In many cases, we see the carrier is carrying the gun for someone else.”

Young people in Y.C.P. often said they had guns for “protection.” This was wrenching to hear, because the guns didn’t deliver on that promise. Instead, they brought more danger by escalating the potential and consequences of conflict.

But that doesn’t make prison the answer. Almost everyone who gets locked up for possessing a gun comes home within a few years, less equipped to get a decent job or housing. Brooklyn’s willingness to offer an alternative is Y.C.P’s great innovation.

To reduce and someday end mass incarceration, the country is very much in need of models like this one. But Mayor de Blasio doesn’t get it. “We should not confuse the goal of diversion, which for nonviolent offenses, is a valid tool,” he said, criticizing Mr. Gonzalez’s commitment to Y.C.P. “The N.Y.P.D. is doing amazing, amazing work. They need the prosecutors to be just as aggressive.”

But that’s not what the people of Brooklyn opted for when they elected Mr. Gonzales their district attorney in 2017. He ran on a progressive platform, promising to make Brooklyn safe by making its communities healthier. Y.C.P. is part of that mission. Mayor de Blasio could distinguish himself — in his city and in the Democratic presidential field — by standing up for it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514161)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:13 AM
Author: Buck "The Club" Paulette

I don't even understand this. Libs want guns to be illegal but if you are caught with an illegal gun, there should be no serious punishment.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514145)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:19 AM
Author: leolenin

It's just inching towards explicit differentiation of law enforcement by race

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514168)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:01 PM
Author: ><<(^((*>



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515723)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:21 AM
Author: War Machine

It'll created two sets of laws: most normal, decent, law abiding citizens will follow these gun laws out of a sense of civic responsibility while the others do what they please.

The same process is underway with fare evasion, paying tickets/summonses, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514174)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:22 AM
Author: leolenin

decent law abiding people are not the people committing crime

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514177)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:23 AM
Author: War Machine

Obviously. What about what I typed implied that?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514182)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:25 AM
Author: leolenin

Nothing I am not arguing. Its just absurd

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514191)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:26 AM
Author: donny (retired) (donny)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514195)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:26 AM
Author: War Machine

Not really.

In the case of guns, people like this columnist are angling for total prohibition. Any consequences from policies like the one he's advocating for are features, not bugs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514197)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:27 AM
Author: Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514200)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:30 AM
Author: leolenin

So you think her position is as long as there are guns minorities will commit crimes with them so only way to prevent disparate imprisonment is to ban guns. Probably right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514216)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:33 AM
Author: Lemma Time

Libs want minorities committing crimes with guns. Because minorities are going to constantly commit crimes, as long as they're with guns, libs can blame the guns.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514227)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:52 AM
Author: Buck "The Club" Paulette



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514582)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:36 AM
Author: War Machine

He doesn't believe in personal agency for marginalized groups. So while they shouldn't be punished for wrongdoing, *others* should be punished for allowing marginalized groups to commit wrongdoing.

See college rape, obesity, college loans...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514243)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 1:50 PM
Author: Windsor Canadian

(Black Klansman)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515654)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:18 PM
Author: Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1

As a black man, do you ever worry that that will substantially increase racial animus?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515818)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 9:33 AM
Author: .,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::


but only if you are a "youth"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514226)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:52 AM
Author: Don Kihote

posted about how some white libs I know basically want two sets of laws for guns, one that pwns "white rednecks" while going easy on Darnell and probably Jose as well

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514583)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:00 PM
Author: GOY GUN NUT

Hate crimes vs get out of jail free cards

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515716)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:03 PM
Author: Proctolgia Fugax + HSV1 + Androgenic Alopecia

Urban blacks with guns are OK.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515731)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:03 AM
Author: A Jurisprudence is Performed (Dictated But Not Read)

white UMC libs are really going all-in on the "crime is nbd" angle

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514340)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:04 AM
Author: Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1

this is why the suburbs aren't dead yet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514346)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:08 AM
Author: A Jurisprudence is Performed (Dictated But Not Read)

there's a huge disconnect between "thinkpiece" writers like Bazelon and real urban black people (ie actual Democratic voter base) on this issue. Urban blacks hate cops but they hate thugs with guns too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514360)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:15 AM
Author: .,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::


*leans into mic*

Urban blacks ARE thugs with guns

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514399)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:19 AM
Author: A Jurisprudence is Performed (Dictated But Not Read)

not the 50 year old grandmas. The under 30 twgs don't (and usually can't) vote anyway

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514416)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:49 AM
Author: .,.,,.;,,.,.,.:..,;..,.,..,.;.;,,:.........:..,.::


lol you mean all the 50 yo grandmas shouting that they son is a "good keed dindu nuffin?"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514569)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:25 PM
Author: acorn2525

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3312770&mc=153&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515853)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:40 AM
Author: Hysterical bitchmade deepstate faggot

“Eighty percent of New York City’s drop in homicides happened before the strict mandatory sentences for gun possession went into effect in 2006. Researchers have failed to find evidence that compulsory prison time for gun possession resulted in a drop in violent crime in Florida, Virginia, Massachusetts and Chicago.”

Im at the point where I just dont trust “researchers”. They have shown too much willingness to cherry-pick data, skew sample sizes, and generally rig their studies to support a predetermined outcome.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514530)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:44 AM
Author: dont run Clinton Epstein seeswhoops never mind lol



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514546)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:46 AM
Author: Rafael Ironside, FIVE TIME ATP Year-End #1

Of course. How do you think they get funding?

It's no different than the media basing their coverage on what gets the most eyeballs and ad revenue.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514557)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 10:47 AM
Author: .,,,..,,...,.,.,:,:,,...,::,...,:,...:..,:.::,.


as someone who does analysis for a living, I completely agree with your last point

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38514563)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:01 PM
Author: Hysterical bitchmade deepstate faggot

How does this happen? Is it the patrons saying, “we want statistical support for X position” or are the researchers ideologically motivated?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515725)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 3:25 PM
Author: postgres

Bro it's social sciences, what do you think

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38516198)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:06 PM
Author: t( ^-^ t) (earl)

so take the peak year of all murders in the 70's, increase the police force by 500%, then much later pass strict mandatory gun possession laws, and complain that only 20% of the decrease in murders has happened since 2006?

What the fuck "journalist"?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515753)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:46 PM
Author: alias.php

Same. I don't believe in any "facts" or "statistics" anymore unless accompanied by a study, and even then the study is likely biased. The parameters determine every statistic, and the parameters are hardly revealed.

Remember when some Trump adminmo said they had "alternate facts" and were roundly mocked? I actually agree with that position now. Further redpilling I suppose.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515993)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 4:21 PM
Author: leolenin

There are huge swathes of possibilities that are prohibited from being given any explanatory power for political reasons. As soon as that happened in a field, the field is illegitimate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38516466)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:25 PM
Author: acorn2525

also, ban guns and the arrest the NRA

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38515852)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 11th, 2019 2:53 PM
Author: gibberish

If libs were serious about gun deaths I could help them cut the rate in half by doing the exact opposite of the op.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4300438&forum_id=2#38516031)