That's not how Medicare and Medicaid work now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39663796)

Imagine if your house caught fire but you had to call the right fire department in your network. Or if you got a $700 bill after you call the police. I'm not going to change your mind but hopefully you can see why medical for all mos feel the way we do

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39660536)

I think people are ok with that actually, compared to the current system. If we do nothing we are going to get more and more radical behavior from below and I don't think the UMC bros on this website get it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39660575)

If the current commercial system was working at all I could see your point. But it's an absolute shitshow and there is real risk it will lead to political instability. So I never know what you guys are arguing FOR.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661435)

Maybe we should rollback all the medical laws passed since it was affordable??

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661446)

Which period are you rolling back to? I assume you mean allowing hospitals to run as efficient profit engines and do stuff like turn down poor people with heart attacks and people with pre-existing conditions. You can live in that little world and jerk off to fantastic gross profit figures as the barbarians crash through the gates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661478)

These are different for a few reasons.

1. Fire/police protection are fundamentally local. And quality also varies as a result.

2. They're also limited use services. Not everyone is using fire/police all the time. You don't have fire/police caring for people for months or years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661517)

I live a safe life so why should *I* pay for my neighbor who plays with fireworks?

I'm an AMERICAN and I should be able to pick my own police coverage

My employer provides fire coverage and I don't want to lose that

Unless you are cow goes moo, you've internalized those arguments and come out in favor of public services. I go one step further to Healthcare

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661610)

Because there's no efficient way of differentiating coverage for things like police/fire other than geographic area. If you're near a town border, then you may not be paying for your neighbor - they pay taxes to their town instead and get the possibly crappier or better services of that town. Because there are different socio-economic factors between different towns, you STILL end up with different coverage for things like police/fire depending on who you are.

This doesn't apply to healthcare or things like buying a car.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39662164)

Policing goes to the fundamental purpose of government in the first place— to prevent the unjust exercise of violence.

Medicine is a nice-to-have service, no different than any other service. You don’t have a right to it any more than you have a right to barbering services.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39662397)

We just fundamentally disagree on 3. Nose jobs and shit isn't a right, but there is a whole philosophy associated with medicine (hippocratic oath) that instructs people to care for the sick. If someone next to you at dinner has a heart attack I doubt your first instinct is to think "sucks bro, but treating you is a nice to have"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39662462)

what happens when you put price ceilings on a scare resource (doctors, equipment, etc)? big fucking shortages, rationing and unhappy doctors.

soon doctors will accept under the table “fees” for the ability to skip the line and receive more services than allowed. people might start underground clinics to make money off the backlog

pure dystopia. i feel like a better approach is to address the shortage of doctors and force europe and japan to pay the same price as american patients for american drugs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39660493)

We've done this with schools so the result with healthcare should not be a surprise.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39660518)

I know what is done now is that ACA requires doctors to accept certain percentages of medicaid/ medicare patients in order to qualify for privileges at hospitals. It's tough for doctors to practice if they don't have access to hospitals. However, there have been a bunch of private "surgery centers" that have sprung up so it may be the case that doctors are finding ways around this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661291)

How can fuck can anyone with a brain be optimistic about Bernie’s shot at beating trump?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39662455)

it is pretty obvious most poasters do not understand this issue AT ALL - just lol @ you fucking idiots passionately defending the nightmare status quo created by the ‘ACA’

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39660914)

The public option was intended to destroy the private market and bring about single payer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661615)

1) How will we pay for Medicare for All?

2) How does M4A square with the lib position of open borders?

3) How does M4A work in a society in which various groups are at each other’s throats?

4) What is the current quality of care of Medicare, and is that what we are going to inflict on hundreds of millions of people?

5) How prone to fraud will M4A be?

6) Why should we trust the government to administer health care?

7) How long until we see denial of care for people who hold “incorrect” political opinions (as is happening in the UK)?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661174)

2) How does M4A square with the lib position of open borders? - healthcare is a human right and undocumented immigrants are human. Fears of insuring undocumented workers is racist.

3) How does M4A work in a society in which various groups are at each other’s throats? - racist whites ruin everything if only there was something that could be done about them.

4) What is the current quality of care of Medicare, and is that what we are going to inflict on hundreds of millions of people? - Medicaid & Medicare are absolutely awesome also libs will promise to drastically improve Medicaid & Medicare

5) How prone to fraud will M4A be? - fraud and waste represent an incredibly small portion of government spending

6) Why should we trust the government to administer health care? - things we do through the government are things we do "together." EDIT: also, once this is done are you really going to trust anyone but a democrat to be in charge of your healthcare, democrats being the party of more-for-you, which is the whole point of this entire exercise.

7) How long until we see denial of care for people who hold “incorrect” political opinions (as is happening in the UK)? - sooner the better also see response to #3

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661271)

2. Not sure Libs are officially for open borders. I'm not.

3. Vague question

4. No. We also need to eliminate private health insurance. That would dramatically change care.

5. Who knows.

6. Why should we trust the private sector? They've really fucked things up.

7. I'm not familiar with this. Seems isolated and out of context.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39661342)

Policy fuck ups between WWII and the 60s, mostly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39663807)

How would we function as a society if Little Jenny with rickets had to pay health insurance premiums while opening up her cupcake stand

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39664743)

https://www.healthinsurance.org/medicaid/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39663820)

I’ll bet that Obeezy, for example, is against M4A. He loves his god emperor Obama’s system of Obamacare, and probably wishes that it included a public option, but I don’t think that M4A is his thing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39663824)

You're smarter than this, but partisanship is a helluva drug.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39701000)

here in texas you text them to get "in line," they text you when it's almost your place in line, you drive there, you wait about five minutes, then you are done

works just like a restaurant reservation system, actually better because if you're still on your way there, you can text to have them bump you back a couple places and delay your "reservation" by about 5 minutes

meanwhile i went to the dr with my kid for a dr's appt and we literally waited an hour to draw blood for a test

sounds like govt is doing it better than fapitalism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39700953)

When there is federally administered healthcare for everyone, do you think the system will run more like Texas, or California / New York?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4454641&forum_id=2#39702342)