Among the 26 PhD students I have advised, only 5 were US citizens.

Among the 13 postdocs who have worked with me at NYU, only 1 was a US citizen.

Among the 122 co-authors of my papers listed on my Google Scholar page, 22 were born American.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483830)

He sounds like a retard and so do you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483879)

he initially worked in the US on an h1b visa himself

but yeah, sure, he doesn't know what that is

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483894)

yes, the professor is an immigrant himself. thanks for pointing that out. wow such pwnage

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484229)

https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1275536456677822467?s=21

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483891)

Among the 13 postdocs who have worked with me at NYU, only 1 was a US citizen.

Among the 122 co-authors of my papers listed on my Google Scholar page, 22 were born American.

6/N

https://twitter.com/ylecun/status/1275536456677822467

reminder: the US govt is literally fucking foreigners to hijack our STEM education and steal our shit and take it back to china

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483990)

UCSF Postdoc, Funded By NIH Grant, Turns Out To Be MAJOR In Chink Army; Arrested

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4564858&mc=17&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484090)

xo anti-foreigner narrative BTFO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483786)

Among the 13 postdocs who have worked with me at NYU, only 1 was a US citizen.

Among the 122 co-authors of my papers listed on my Google Scholar page, 22 were born American.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483817)

They stay for the (((culture)))

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484126)

i'd fucking work 12 hours a day farming my own food if it meant i didn't have to ever deal with another ape-brained nigger or bug-brained chink like you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483929)

you, like all the other morons itt, enjoy the economic surpluses of tech and immigration every day, while spending every waking moment flailing against it. sad!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483983)

oh what a surplus!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483995)

cool "economic surplus," JJC. wanna take it back to china with you after you get kicked out with the rest of the turds and bugs?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484058)

if the US is so shit because of immigration, what other country do you think you would have been better served growing up in?

please expound

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484104)

was this supposed to be clever? lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484151)

the US has always welcomed and benefited from immigrants

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484206)

"please go somewhere else then"

LOL, proof of displacement theory right here, folks.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484933)

Think of all the good fb has done for society. Imagine losing that!!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483820)

his employer is facebook, but he advances the entire field of CS. the eventual work inspired by him will produce more economic value than a million lawyers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483866)

you benefit from living in a country that has drawn top STEM talent throughout the world, and then you shit all over that out of ignorance and pride because you don't like the idea of foreigners coming into the country and being dominant over you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40483938)

and lol, have you ever lived in germany? how the fuck do you know you would love it so much? again, XO pining for something they know nothing about, fueled by bitter hatred and xenophobic

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484026)

People are looking longingly at New Zealand, Switzerland, Denmark etc. They all trail the US substantially in STEM.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484015)

are you sure the US, if we simply banned immigration and threw out our tech industry, would become new zealand, switzerland, or denmark? are there other dissimilarities that would prevent us from getting there? think hard about this, because it's clear you haven't, and all you're doing is flailing angrily at foreigners and it's a stupid fucking look.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484080)

As it stands, you don't have a clear argument with premises and a conclusion. You mostly have bald assertions. I don't think *you* have thought "hard" about why those societies are different than the US, namely why the average citizen has a high quality of life there and in the US he doesn't.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484220)

the prosperity and stability of small european countries is largely predicated on 1) a high-iq homogenous population and 2) the american world order ushered in after WWII. the US was never fated to attain 1). as for 2) the US has enforced this with its technological superiority owing to top-quality immigration starting from the nuclear bomb and the manhattan project.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484276)

i don't think it's him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484585)

SHOW US ALL HOW FOOLISH WE WERE TO TURN YOU AWAY! BY ALL MEANS! JUST STOP COMING HERE.

THANK YOU FOR YOU CONCERN! YOU ARE TRULY TOO KIND.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484107)

you benefit every day, in ways you cannot imagine, from the fruits of immigrant labor - literally hundreds of years of progress and technological dominance owing to immigrants

then, at the peak of american power, you announce "go away! we never wanted you here anyway! prove you're worth something because i simply am too retarded to understand what your contributions are." the arrogance and stupidity is astounding.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484182)

During a normal/expanding economy this is how H1-Bs work :

Tier 3- at least half of these visas are pure salary arbitrage done by indian outsourcing firms with mediocre/crappy talent and this is what i think lot of ppl ITT are correctly pissed off about. this shit is egregious and needs to be clamped down and eliminated - block outsourcers from these visas, require US degree, implement a very high salary floor that will need to be deposited with US govt for 3 years etc

Tier 2 - 30~40% of H1-B visas go to good/high quality people that H1-B visa is meant for and there is no salary arbitrage here. they are not getting hired at FAANG or Microsoft or NVIDIA because they are cheap. these are typically graduates of top STEM schools who make lot of money on par with US citizens, go for roles where there are far more openings than available quality candidates etc. also these kind of hires are not your typical IT/devops roles but usually SDEs at top SW firms, non-software roles like hardware design/development, vision, systems, ML/AI, academic hires @ places like ASU, UNC etc. you just dont have enough US talent to fulfill the demand for these roles in a normal or great economy. think of these H1-Bs as grads with MS from schools like UCLA, Texas, WISC, UCSD, Georgia tech, UIUC, CMU with 3.5+ GPAs

Tier 1 - 10% of visas - genius, extremely well qualified people who are going to make ground breaking contributions in STEM. the kind of ppl who get hired as H1-Bs at IBM Watson/Microsoft research or Lawrence Livermore labs or faculty at MIT/Caltech/CMU etc. losing these kind of ppl is a YUGE loss even in this economy. I would rather have the 2020 MIT/Berkeley Phd in EECS or Physics work in the US than Canada or China or AUS. These are the guys that the ML prof in the OP is talking about

in a shitty TTT economy like right now:

Completely eliminate H1-Bs for tier 3 (permanently) and tier 2 (temporarily) type of candidates/roles. eliminating tier 3 is obvious. For tier 2 You dont need run off the mill, good quality tier 2 software or HW developers when there are large scale layoffs at UBER/AirBnB etc. There is enough talent in our country with the current unemployment rate and frankly not that many tech jobs are even open except in a few companies like AMZN, AAPL

keep like 10% of H1-B quota open for tier 1 candidates - basically PhDs from top tier universities, post-docs or ppl with demonstrated high quality research and excellence

So my take - The ML prof is right and Trump's move is 90% correct. Trump just needs to allow a very limited number of H1-Bs ( < 5,000) for extremely well qualified researchers

Even the alt-right devops bros (for some reason alt-right is well represented in this field lol) who are pissed off at indian outsourcing companies/pajeets, you are not getting impacted by a chinese/indian/french CMU CS PhD in AI getting a job at nvidia research or as asst professor at Caltech as you have no shot at these roles anyway. and 5,000 such visas even in this shitty economy is fine demographics wise when you have 15M million illegals popping out anchor babies. worrying about these 5000 foreigners is like worrying about a scratch on your shoe when you are getting stabbed in your heart

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484505)

fine we can keep the tier 1s

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484518)

i dont think we are losing any local talent at tier 2 level due to H1-Bs. any american who can compete with a georgia tech or CMU indian/chinese grad with 3.5+ GPA will never have to worry about finding a job in a normal economy. there are just way too many job openings at that level compared to available US talent. and in our country there also a lot of alternate paths that attract high IQ bros - top 20 liberal arts, finance etc so we are pretty much getting all the great, just below genius kids who want to do STEM anyway since the rest would rather follow their passion and study philosophy or economics at williams, amherst, chicago

right now trump needs to allow tier 1 H1-B guys through. and medium/long term cut the quota by 50% to like 30,000~40,000 and apply strict filters for quality so that you remove the indian outsourcing companies and their tier 3 back office pajeets. but that will noway happen since 100% of dems and 50% of GOP politicians will oppose it tooth and nail. trump can get away with this EO only because of the massive unemployment we have now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484570)

2) there's so much fraud among the chinks/turds that you can't really identify the tier 1 guys. even among top phd programs, if the PI is a chink, u can't trust that the lab isn't fraudulent itself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484579)

this may not be the reason but the incentives are different for some foreign dood who's counting on getting an Einstein visa+AP job to secure his future and an American who can get off this track at any time to land at a market making firm and get richer than some CS prof

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484607)

most people who don't need a green card to avoid lifelong poverty in Tehran aren't gonna do all that

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484652)

not everybody is motivated by scholarship and academic life/teaching or the grind you have to go through to get there

lots of high IQ stems bros 1) want a chill career right away after college 2) make lot of money 3) make IRL impact by through commercial SW/products or a combination of these 3

they would rather make 500K at FB at 28 rather than write dissertation at MIT

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484665)

regarding (2) never go full retard. you think we have a monopoly on 130+ IQ bros? right now we are attracting like 50%~75% of the 130+ IQ bros who want to do post graduate studies from across the world. we dont have to worry about the quality of a tsingua, technion, SNU or IIT graduate who is doing a PhD at a top 10 program. there are clear ways to identify the tier 1 guys - they get admitted into top 10 PhD programs and graduate from these institutions duh

to get into say MIT/Berkeley EECS PhD - you need to have attended an elite school which in foreign countries usually means you topped a nation wide IQ loaded test, have a very high GPA, have professors who are well known in academia from your college to write you strong recommendations, publish papers that MIT/Berkeley profs can check out, do summer internships at good labs, universities and get those professors/researchers to vouch for u and finally get high GRE scores. some random 100~110 IQ bro is not going to be able fake his way through to MIT or CMU PhD program.

the fraudulent shit is in cash cow masters program where mobs of chinese/indians copy exams and admissions standards are not rigorous. those are not tier 1 candidates

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484636)

imagine how good you have to be to be the one "do the needful sir" prof email spammer that gets taken seriously and followed up on at CMU et al

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484901)

summer research internships at CMU , Imperial College London, University of Sydney

berkeley fellowship for 5 years is nice. then if he goes the industry route industry start with a 400K~1M job since he is working on reinforcement learning at around age 27

beats 3 years of "but but where do we draw the line" lolskool and checking commas for 250K in MFH dodging fireworks and BLM

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484907)

There needs to be a huge reduction of international students and they need to disincentive universities from bringing in internationals.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40485270)

the kind of smart students from our nation who would fit into tier 2 and are not in engineering CHOSE to do something else - history at williams, music at UNC, molecular biology at duke, philosophy at UVA, literature at Swarthmore etc

even if you completely eliminate H1-Bs its not going to change the scenario much unless you want our society to become more asian - force every smart kid to go into engineering despite their wish. goes completely against our ethos.

i doubt there is non-negligible number of smart 115+ IQ high school bros who enjoy science/programming, wants to pursue engineering but is thinking of H1-B abuse and saying "oh no, i dont want engineering anymore because there are a bunch of potbellied turds in IT backoffices" so I am going to give up my interest in STEM and turn to gender studies or literature

link to ANY evidence that HS school students give up on STEM due to H1-B/worker visas?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40488804)

maybe link to ANY "evidence" that anyone on this planet has ever made the choice between engineering and "history at williams" or "literature at Swarthmore"?

One shitty thing about this country is that college is really fucking expensive and some kids have it all paid for by parents while others take out student loans that are non-dischargable and have high interest rates so no, the only ppl who get to major in history at williams are the rich kids who would never touch a prole subject like engineering. that's left for the have-nots who in addition to competing in life with born on third base types also have to compete with cheating, robotic indians/chinese every step of the way in their education/career.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40488991)

Then take them away from the companies that abuse them for the sole purpose of $$ by putting less or equally qualified foreigners in American positions. The article about Disney in Orlando again has not been disputed, and this is just one example.

People aren't required to draw fine distinctions and sort all of the worthy ones out when a program like this is abused by American companies and foreign workers to the extent it has.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40484923)

So to come in here and try to appeal to the superiority of people who are the best in the world at furthering progress/innovation... they have no framework to understand that. They were literally so terrified by STEM that they majored in shitliberal arts and went to law school. These are not intelligent people you're talking to.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40485233)

88. The “benefit of humanity” explanation doesn’t work any better. Some scientific work has no conceivable relation to the welfare of the human race most of archaeology or comparative linguistics for example. Some other areas of science present obviously dangerous possibilities.Yet scientists in these areas are just as enthusiastic about their work as those who develop vaccines or study air pollution. Consider the case of Dr. Edward Teller, who had an obvious emotional involvement in promoting nuclear power plants. Did this involvement stem from a desire to benefit humanity? If so, then why didn’t Dr. Teller get emotional about other “humanitarian” causes? If he was such a humanitarian then why did he help to develop the H-bomb? As with many other scientific achievements, it is very much open to question whether nuclear power plants actually do benefit humanity. Does the cheap electricity outweigh the accumulating waste and the risk of accidents? Dr. Teller saw only one side of the question. Clearly his emotional involvement with nuclear power arose not from a desire to “benefit humanity” but from a personal fulfillment he got from his work and from seeing it put to practical use.

89. The same is true of scientists generally. With possible rare exceptions, their motive is neither curiosity nor a desire to benefit humanity but the need to go through the power process: to have a goal (a scientific problem to solve), to make an effort (research) and to attain the goal(solution of the problem.) Science is a surrogate activity because scientists work mainly for the fulfillment they get out of the work itself.

90. Of course, it’s not that simple. Other motives do play a role for many scientists. Money and status for example.Some scientists may be persons of the type who have an insatiable drive for status (see paragraph 79) and this may provide much of the motivation for their work. No doubt the majority of scientists, like the majority of the general population, are more or less susceptible to advertising and marketing techniques and need money to satisfy their craving for goods and services. Thus science is not a PURE surrogate activity. But it is in large part a surrogate activity.

91. Also, science and technology constitute a power mass movement, and many scientists gratify their need for power through identification with this mass movement(see paragraph 83).

92. Thus science marches on blindly, without regard to the real welfare of the human race or to any other standard, obedient only to the psychological needs of the scientists and of the government officials and corporation executives who provide the funds for research.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40485921)

i realize that top research ph.ds are a little different, but french facebook ai guy is conflating h1bs with his postdocs, so the argument works against him too. presumably it's possible to both have (1) access to top international research programs for top international people and (2) a hard bar to mediocre pajeets serving as scab labor to subsidize the bottom line of large-scale IT employers.

these days, engineering/IT can suck ass as a career path for americans. the effort/reward ratio is all out of whack. when i was teaching GMAT, probably half my students were mid-career engineers who realized that they were fucked for life unless they got MBAs and transitioned to management. if engineering career paths were better, more americans would go into the field and we wouldn't need pajeets. it would be great for the country; if FB needs to increase SG&A, oh well, they had a good run.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40487590)

Yann LeCun Quits Twitter Amid Acrimonious Exchanges on AI Bias

BY SYNCED

2020-06-30

COMMENTS 3

Turing Award Winner and Facebook Chief AI Scientist Yann LeCun has announced his exit from popular social networking platform Twitter after getting involved in a long and often acrimonious dispute regarding racial biases in AI.

Unlike most other artificial intelligence researchers, LeCun has often aired his political views on social media platforms, and has previously engaged in public feuds with colleagues such as Gary Marcus. This time however LeCun’s penchant for debate saw him run afoul of what he termed “the linguistic codes of modern social justice.”

It all started on June 20 with a tweet regarding the new Duke University PULSE AI photo recreation model that had depixelated a low-resolution input image of Barack Obama into a photo of a white male. Penn State University Associate Professor Brad Wyble tweeted “This image speaks volumes about the dangers of bias in AI.” LeCun responded, “ML systems are biased when data is biased. This face upsampling system makes everyone look white because the network was pretrained on FlickFaceHQ, which mainly contains white people pics. Train the *exact* same system on a dataset from Senegal, and everyone will look African.“

Research scientist, co-founder of the “Black in AI” group, and technical co-lead of the Ethical Artificial Intelligence Team at Google Timnit Gebru tweeted in response, “I’m sick of this framing. Tired of it. Many people have tried to explain, many scholars. Listen to us. You can’t just reduce harms caused by ML to dataset bias.” She added, “Even amidst of world wide protests people don’t hear our voices and try to learn from us, they assume they’re experts in everything. Let us lead her and you follow. Just listen. And learn from scholars like @ruha9 [Ruha Benjamin, Associate Professor of African American Studies at Princeton University]. We even brought her to your house, your conference.” (This was a reference to ICLR 2020, where LeCun served as president and Benjamin presented the talk 2020 Vision: Reimagining the Default Settings of Technology & Society.)

Known for her work on racial and gender bias in facial recognition systems and other AI algorithms, Gebru has been advocating for fairness and ethics in AI for years. The Gender Shades project that she leads with MIT Media Lab Computer Scientist Joy Buolamwini revealed that commercial facial recognition software was more likely to misclassified and was less accurate with darker-skinned females compared to lighter-skinned men.

Gebru’s CVPR 2020 talk Computer vision in practice: who is benefiting and who is being harmed? again addressed the role of bias in AI, “I think that now a lot of people have understood that we need to have more diverse datasets, but unfortunately I felt like that’s kind of where the understanding has stopped. It’s like ‘let’s diversify our datasets. And that’s kind of ethics and fairness, right?’ But you can’t ignore social and structural problems.“

LeCun replied that his comment was targeting the particular case of the Duke model and dataset. “The consequences of bias are considerably more dire in a deployed product than in an academic paper,” continued LeCun in a lengthy thread of tweets suggesting it’s not ML researchers that need to be more careful selecting data but engineers.

“Again. UNBELIEVABLE. What does it take? If tutorials at your own conference, books and books and talks and talks from experts coming to YOU, to your own house, feeding it to you, Emily and I even cover issues with how the research community approaches data. Nope. Doesn’t matter.” Gebru replied. “This is not even people outside the community, which we say people like him should follow, read, learn from. This is us trying to educate people in our own community. Its a depressing time to be sure. Depressing.”

Others from the AI and activist communities joined the fray, with far too many simply attacking either LeCun or Gebru. On June 25 LeCun offered an olive branch: “I very much admire your work on AI ethics and fairness. I care deeply about about working to make sure biases don’t get amplified by AI and I’m sorry that the way I communicated here became the story.” Gebru replied, “We’re often told things like ‘I’m sorry that’s how it made you feel.’ That doesn’t really own up to the actual thing. I hope you understand *why* *how* you communicated became the story. It became the story because its a pattern of marginalization.”

The week-long back-and-forth between LeCun and Gebru attracted thousands of likes, comments, and retweets, with a number of high-profile AI researchers expressing dissatisfaction with LeCun’s explanations. Google Research scientist David Ha commented, “I respectfully disagree w/Yann here. As long as progress is benchmarked on biased data, such biases will also be reflected in the inductive biases of ML systems Advancing ML with biased benchmarks and asking engineers to simply ‘retrain models with unbiased data’ is not helpful.” Canada CIFAR AI chair Nicolas Le Roux tweeted, “Yann, I know you mean well. I saw many people act like you just did in good faith, and get defensive when people pointed that this was not the proper response, until one day they stopped to listen and reflect and ultimately change their behaviour.”

Amid the heated debate, the Duke PULSE research team updated their paper, adding: “Overall, it seems that sampling from StyleGAN yields white faces much more frequently than faces of people of color.” The researchers referenced an April 2020 paper on demographic bias in artificially generated facial pictures by Salminen et al.: “Results indicate a racial bias among the generated pictures, with close to three-[fourths] (72.6%) of the pictures representing White people. Asian (13.8%) and Black (10.1%) are considerably less frequent, while Indians represent only a minor fraction of the pictures (3.4%).”

The team also added a “model card” to their study. Gebru was part of a team that introduced the model card framework in 2019 to “provide benchmarked evaluation in a variety of conditions, such as across different cultural, demographic, or phenotypic groups (e.g., race, geographic location, sex, Fitzpatrick skin type) and intersectional groups (e.g., age and race, or sex and Fitzpatrick skin type) that are relevant to the intended application domains

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40525031)

This is insane

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40525141)

https://www.ruhabenjamin.com/research

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40525297)

“Racial Destiny or Dexterity? The Global Circulation of Genomics as an Empowerment Idiom”, (2015) in Reimagining (Bio)Medicalization, Pharmaceuticals and Genetics: Old Critiques and New Engagements, edited by Susan Bell and Anne Figert, Ch.10. (abstract)

“Innovating Inequity: If Race is a Technology, Postracialism is the Genius Bar.” (2016) Ethnic and Racial Studies. (paper).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4568715&forum_id=2#40525343)