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Kidmos: Any Wives Deliver In BIRTHING CENTER Or Do HOME BIRTH?
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Date: June 25th, 2020 11:26 AM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier seems like hospitals aren't going to be allowing doulas in anytime soon, and PDDJ wants to be able to have a natural birth.
thoughts on birthing centers, licensed midwives vs doctors, and home births. |
Date: June 25th, 2020 1:32 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493873) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:33 PM Author: harsh mediation Fine but make sure youre close enough to hospital if you have to do c section. She might have to get in an ambulance at that point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493886) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:35 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier how close? home is 10 mins away from a hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493900) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:35 PM Author: harsh mediation Seems fine. NOT LEGAL ADVICE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493901) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:45 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace fucking LOL if there's an emergency 10 minutes might as well be an hour. in the hospital, obgyns do crash c-sections within SECONDS when shit hits the fan. literal seconds. (and btw ur retarded "doula" won't know when there's an emergency anyway) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493969) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier fair points (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493981) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:54 PM Author: confused mind-boggling lettuce right.
this home frilly shit is simply a huge risk. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:54 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier what about a birthing center then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494063) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:55 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Is it equipped for surgery on-site? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494076) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:58 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier there seem to be two kinds of birthing centers:
1) ones affiliated or run by hospitals that are next door or basically in a wing of a hospital. i guess u deliver with a licensed midwife but you're next door to the hospital in case anything goes wrong and the hospital is overseeing the whole thing; or
2) a stand-alone one what would have to transfer you to a hospital |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:00 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Think about how long a hospital transfer would take. How much blood would your wife lose during that time. How long would your baby be without oxygen? Even being NEXT TO the hospital will take time to get over there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494124) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:40 PM Author: clear old irish cottage this shit never happens. ljl at risk adverse faggot lawyers on this bort worried about an outcome that happens 0.0001% of the time. you probably have a higher risk of crashing on the way to the hospital because your faggot little pink dick is too nervous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494771) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: confused mind-boggling lettuce these are meaningless words. either they can do emergency c-sections on the spot or they can't.
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:34 PM Author: tripping cuck indian lodge just do home birth in bathtub. we did this shit for 6,000 years without modern "medicine" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493894) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:36 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier tbf, we did lots of shit prior to modern medicine and had horrible mortality rates (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493907) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:36 PM Author: Yapping step-uncle's house infant mortality was like 40% during most of that time but sure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493908) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:55 PM Author: Provocative Range lmao
and moms died like 1/3 of the time |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:42 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace ur an absolute fucking retard if you don't give birth in a hospital with an obgyn. read some of the horror stories about home births. if it goes poorly, ur baby is fucking DEAD (best case) or worse, it somehow survives after being oxygen deprived for some minutes and now congrats you get to raise terry schiavo for the next 60 years.
"doulas" and "midwives" are absolute laughable garbage ... if you can have one standing in the delivery room doing her chants or whatever horseshit, great, but this is your child's life (and ur wife's). there's only one acceptable answer here. stop being retarded. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:45 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier tyft
yeah doulas don't replace an obgyn if you birth in a hospital.
are midwives really garbage? they still have a licensure requirement |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:46 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace midwives can't do crash c-sections. don't fuck around with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493972) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: confused mind-boggling lettuce DGB is running some slim shady man schtick here, he cannot be this fucking dumb to play around with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494191) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:09 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier this thread was to flesh out my thought process. nobody's signed up for a home birth at this point. i'm leaning strongly hospital after this thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494210) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: Cheese-eating mischievous mental disorder library no you don't get it. DBG is a high-iq STEMmo and has determined from his exhaustive research that hospital births are "fraud". it's perfectly reasonable for him to put babby's life in the hands of a 90iq "doula". a life he is so concerned about that he has spent the last 4 months hiding in an are country bunker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493980) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:48 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier no, our obgyn is very grainy and into natural birth and says he has like a 13% c-section rate. i think we're in good hands with him, but it'd also be useful to have a doula for best chance at a natural birth. the problem is we cant have a doula, most likely. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493995) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:49 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy A doula is basically a "professional" birthing coach. It's pointless. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494003) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:51 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier if a doula can help with a natural birth and avoid a possible c-section better than i can assist pddj, it's a good thing.
do u think i'm the best person to give love and support and encouragement to pddj while she's in labor? |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:54 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy She knew what she was marrying (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494050) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:55 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier everyone has pros and cons (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494064) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:50 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine how is a doula going to increase her chances of natural birth. either it happens or it doesn't. you think breathing exercises are going to be the difference maker here? also check out other thread i bumped for you on jewess doula |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:52 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier yes, isn't that the selling point of the doula -- that their breathing techniques, massaging techniques, movement techniques, etc. somehow help achieve a natural birth? is this flame? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494031) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:53 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494045) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:56 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine i'm sure it helps avoid an epidural. i dunno about avoiding c-section. i'm sure they claim that but i would be very skeptical (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494078) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:01 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier they DO claim it. if it avoids an epidural, which causes labor to slow down by an hour, and causes you to be bedridden such that you cant walk around and deliver in any other position, doesn't that avoid c-sections even by somewhat? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494128) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:04 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Walking around was the last thing I wanted to do in the middle of labor lol.
Look, if she doesn't want an epidural, fine. The hospital won't force one on her. It's completely her choice. Is she trying to remove the urge to ask for one or something? |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:04 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29781504/ epidural does not have any effect on rate of sections |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:06 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier interesting. going to ask obgyn today (we have an appointment later) about whether he believes this is true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494178) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:12 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine he will probably say he doesn't because the epidural gives him something to blame when anything goes wrong. most older doctors don't keep up with literature and believe whatever they learned 20 years ago |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:14 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier he's ~40
we'll see what unfolds |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 7:30 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier so, OB says that epidurals do not lead to a higher c-section rate. i asked him how, if it slows down delivery by 45 minutes and means you cant feel and more around and push (all things that natural birth ppl advocate as good), this DOESNT lead to more c-sections.
he basically said that it's kinda of apples and oranges -- two different types of birthing styles. advantages and disadvantages to each, and personal preference. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace the primary advantage of a doula is to ensure that ur baby's shoulder dystocia results in the doula doing "movement techniques" while ur baby suffocates and ur wife bleeds to death, i.e., a completely natural outcome (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494090) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:03 PM Author: Provocative Range when you are in labor, most of this shit goes to the wayside
that said, if your wife is intent on natural, it is possible just by sheer determination. i even did natural with no preparation whatsoever. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier why would the doula shit go to the wayside if ur in the room with them?
i do think the "classes" they offer beforehand about breathing techniques will all go totally by the wayside. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy lol see how receptive wifey is to the doula's suggestions when she's in excruciating pain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494205) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:10 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier she'll be more receptive to a sweet goy doula than anything i'm going to say while i live-poast the delivery on xo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494214) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:51 PM Author: Ruby tanning salon masturbator (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494024) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:45 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy You are putting the "experience" of childbirth over safety. If your wife starts to bleed out, she is toast. If baby has a serious medical issue, zhe is toast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493971) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:49 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier tbf we're trying to prioritize a natural birth -- not the "experience" (we dont care). fair points though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494009) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:53 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy You can get that at the hospital. And if she decides she wants an epidural who fucking cares. She should have all options available to her. I lol @ anyone who has a "birth plan." You won't know what you want or what it's like until you're in the thick of it. Every woman goes in wanting to be "strong" and doing it drug-free. There's no shame if she decides she's had enough and wants to "tap-out" with an epidural so her body can have a break.
Where would you even do the home birth? In the bed? Tub? A giant inflatable pool? Think of the logistics. Will you ever look at that room the same again? Childbirth is a fucking mess and that's if it goes right. I can't understand anyone wanting to do a home birth. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:05 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier fair points. i would indeed like her to have all her options, and a doula at a hospital would be the ideal situation. but it doesn't seem like it's going to be an option. in that case, from this thread, it seems like hospital without the doula would be the next best option -- and anything else is dangerous.
>>Will you ever look at that room the same again?
you're talking to a guy who shits in plastic bags and poasts pics of them online for his anonymous friends |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: Provocative Range you realize you can get a natural birth at the hospital right?
also you realize a natural birth is painful as fuck right? |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:07 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier yes, i realize that. but a doula helps with natural birth, and we probably cant bring a doula into the hospital at this point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494186) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: Amber sick hall circlehead You are so fucking stupid just abort the kid now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493978) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:47 PM Author: Cheese-eating mischievous mental disorder library (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40493986) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:51 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace ideally coupled with his parents doing a post-birth abortion on him (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494025) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:53 PM Author: Rose Messiness Is your 1/4 goy baby going to be born in Missouri or wherever it is you’re staying? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494041) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:55 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier yes, the place of birth is going to be rather embarrassing for him to have to tell people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494074) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:55 PM Author: Provocative Range I had a "natural birth" at the hospital - worst experience ever
Tell her to get drugs |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine no this will be more entertaining for us if she does it without an epidural (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494085) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:59 PM Author: Provocative Range i mean a lot of women do natural, but it is painful as fuck
i had natural birth only because the doctors/nurses fucked up the timing of an epidural and i couldn't get one. i wouldn't recommend it. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:02 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine how did they fuck up the timing? i've found that L&D nurses are fucking nazis about this and often make or push decisions for moms that they have no business being involved in. ie telling them it's way too "early" for an epidural and then once the mom is in excruciating pain and they call the anesthesiologist, he's busy with another patient, the mom is too squirrely to even sit up, and the baby is too low to bother with an epidural anyway |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:05 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy They often won't do an epidural if you're fully dilated or close to it. And as you said, if the anesthesiologist gets called into a c-section or something, you're SOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494167) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: Provocative Range cr, and appanrelty dumb bitch nurses think we all have the same pain tolerance
i was walking and talking at 7cm with a baby about to fall out of me and they told me to stay home lmao |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:05 PM Author: Provocative Range two on call nurses told me to stay home because my contractions were too far apart. by the time i got admitted to the hospital i was like 7 cm dilated and i gave birth within a couple of hours. the nurses also fucked around for awhile while i was at the hospital doing NOTHING for over an hour thinking i wasn't going to give birth for hours but i had a fast delivery...my contractions never reached within 5 minutes of each other until i was like 9 cm dilated and the baby was about to come out. by then it was too late for an epidural.
i am still really fucking pissed about it. so many nurses are retarded. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:11 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy It's not just nurses. I had to DEMAND that a resident check me b/c I felt ready to push. She had just checked me like 20 minutes earlier and thought it was too soon. I had to insist 3 times before she would check. I delivered like 5 minutes later w just a few pushes. This was not my first kid either. Had it been, I might not have advocated so hard and who knows what would've happened.
To her credit, she did apologize to me later at least. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:16 PM Author: Provocative Range That sucks. They generalize so much (e.g., 511 rule, if you are a first time mom you will have a long labor, etc.), and a lot of the time those rules don't apply whatsoever.
If I had listened to those nurses and stayed at home until my contractions were closer together per the 511 rule, I would have given birth in bed at home and who knows what would have happened then.
Labor was so fast they didn't even administer the antibiotic for group strep B in time....because the nurses were literally fucking around for over an hour thinking I wouldn't deliver. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:06 PM Author: Provocative Range also one of the nurses said "no way you're in labor right now because you're talking to me". i was already 7cm dilated.
apparently i have an insane pain tolerance and could walk and talk normally at 7cm dilated
fuck that stupid bitch nurse |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:14 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine yes L&D nurses are the only kind of nurses who are given this kind of autonomy and they think they are hot shit because of it. they abuse med students, dads, moms, whatever. then they talk shit about their patients when they go to the nursing station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494248) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:20 PM Author: Provocative Range most of the L&D nurses seemed incompetent
they ended up handing my case over to the only good L&D nurse (who saved the day to be honest). the other nurses were literally doing nothing for over an hour and when she took over shit finally started getting done |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:15 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier what happens if the birth is on shabbos? how am i gonna live blog this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494251) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:56 PM Author: racy tattoo rehab only thing about hospitals is that they really push c sections on you needlessly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494081) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy That was never my experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494095) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:04 PM Author: racy tattoo rehab this is statistically the case (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494147) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:08 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Compared to what, a home birth? Home birth they won't push for a c-section until there's clearly no choice, so maybe in that regard yes a hospital will jump to it a little sooner b/c the resources are right there, but doesn't mean the hospital's call was unwarranted. The home birth you might just be taking more risk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494195) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:13 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier compared to other countries? i read the US has the worst c-section rate in the developed world. this shows that US doctors are risk-averse and afraid of getting sued or want the $$$$ and are pushing c-sections
hospitals can also make $$$ of the c-section because it means longer stays. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:17 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy I guess that makes sense. I knew someone whose dad was an OB and she tried to claim he preferred c-sections b/c it was an easier recovery for the mom lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494267) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:21 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494291) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:00 PM Author: Provocative Range i think they only really push c sections if your babys heart rate starts crashing or whatever
the's the main issue with epidurals - women can't push as easily as they can with natural birth because they can't feel anything down there
if you want a fast delivery (albeit painful) natural is a lot faster |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:02 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy I don't think that's true. I had an epidural all 3 times and it does NOT prevent you from feeling the urge to push. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494139) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:26 PM Author: Provocative Range doesnt it make you less effective in pushing though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494326) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:23 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy I don't really have a basis for comparison since I wound up w an epidural all three times. My first took a lot of pushing due to being late and enormous. The other two popped right out after 3 pushes. You still feel the pressure to push, just not the pain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494684) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:14 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier this is what i've read. that epidural --> you cant push as well --> more likely to have a c-section
jag poasted a paper above saying epidurals dont lead to c-sections, though |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:16 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine it prolongs the pushing by an hour, you are correct. but it's not associated with more sections (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494259) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:32 PM Author: Yapping step-uncle's house are c-sections even that big a deal? i guess you have longer recovery and a scar but much easier birth proces vs. shitty birth process and a blown out vag but shorter recovery. I'd just do whatever was lower risk.
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:11 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier they def do, but doctor is grainy and into natural birth and says he has like a 13% c-section rate. he also said he wont induce labor until 42 weeks. i trust that he'll be in good hands with him. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494220) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:19 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy 42 weeks is pretty late...pay attention to the estimated size around 40 weeks. 39 weeks is technically full term. The latest I went was 8 days over and the kid was huge. They gain a pound a week at that point. 2 extra pounds is a lot of baby. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494277) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:22 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier i was 3 weeks late and 7 lb 8 ounces. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494298) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:23 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy More likely they just fucked up the due date (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494314) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:25 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier perhaps.
pddj has irregular cycles -- 5-6 weeks, sometimes more. i'm convinced she's going to be late because the due date is based on a four week cycle. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:26 PM Author: citrine school What kind of retards are you working with that can't adjust due date based on your wife's cycle? They can also get a better guess on due date based on size of baby in early ultrasounds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40495434) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:24 PM Author: Provocative Range 42 weeks is late bro. higher risk of stillborn by then
better to deliver slightly earlier than at 42 weeks |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 8:51 AM Author: 180 deep church they only do that in poor areas where they get the higher reimbursment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40498560) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 1:57 PM Author: Know-it-all pale boiling water I'm half retarded according to the iq thread and don't have any childbirth experience but it seems to me that only a true fucking idiot wouldn't want a licensed obgyn right next to their laboring wife. Good luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494092) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:16 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier the obgyn isnt right next to you until you're about to deliver. it's just the woman and her husband in the room alone for a full day, with the nurse coming to check up on you every hour. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494264) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:20 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine lol what's the OB supposed to do? watch mom have contractions? they're there to anticipate how things could go wrong and intervene when things do go wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494280) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:24 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier OB's job isnt to be a labor coach. i was just responding to the retarded notion that the OB is "right next to you." he's not. you're on your own unless u have a doula or a supportive husband or whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494315) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:25 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy I don't think he meant literally. I think he just meant readily available at a moment's notice. For my births they were literally just hanging out in the hall shooting the shit with people lol. OB can be at the ready w/in seconds. Compare that to anything requiring a transfer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494325) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:27 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier did the nurses do shit or just come in every hour to check on you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494339) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:30 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy I felt like a nurse was basically dedicated to my room at any given time, and I don't recall a ton of alone time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494362) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:29 PM Author: Know-it-all pale boiling water You're intentionally taking it too literally you ESL fuck. Go ahead, let a fucking witch doctor with an online degree deliver your kid, hope you get what you deserve.
Dummy. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:16 PM Author: Umber cumskin There are multiple doctors and nurses monitoring yours and baby’s vitals the entire time in the hospital on the screens outside for every L&D room. There was a point in the middle of the night where I turned a certain way and the baby’s heart rate dropped rapidly and they came bursting in immediately, like 5-10 people. The idea that you want to pay more money to avoid that sort of medical support in case something happens is absurd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40495374) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:02 PM Author: Ruddy Stage Abort this thread abort this spawn keep aborting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494138) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:04 PM Author: Slate Parlour Electric Furnace enjoy! https://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/kara-keough-bosworth-home-birth-baby-boy-death-details
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:15 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Kid was over 11 lbs and they were attempting a home birth. Insane. One of mine was over 9 lbs. It took two hours of pushing and the vacuum to get it out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494255) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:11 PM Author: useless pit stain Having a "doula" or a "home birth" or any of that bullshit is goyishe and stupid. If you have any emergency during birth, your dumb fucking part-time yoga instructor doula is not going to be able to do shit.
Use your fucking brain and do it at a hospital you dumb goy. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:18 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier poor RC? a doula ordinarily could be used at a hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494274) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:23 PM Author: useless pit stain "thoughts on birthing centers, licensed midwives vs doctors, and home births."
Above are my thoughts.
You're like the Homer Simpson of XO poasters: comically dumber each year. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:25 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier always a quotemo.
most ppl itt are having a intelligent convo about the nuances of this, but... always a quotemo! |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:29 PM Author: useless pit stain There is no nuance. If you have any sort of home birth and there is a complication, your wife and/or baby have a greater chance of dying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494358) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:33 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier that's an legitimate opinion -- and i think you're right.
saying that doulas deliver babies is retarded -- they don't. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:21 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier jag, have u ever delivered a baby for an orthodox women? do u know the woman becomes ritually impure when she starts to bleed in labor, in the same way she's impure from a period. after that point, the husband can't touch her. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494289) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 2:30 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine i avoided deliveries like the plague as a med student. if they did insist i go into delivery rooms, i would always pick spics on their 6th baby so i wouldn't have to encourage them to "push" and could catch the baby within 5min and be out of there but that is a nice benefit. now at least the nurse can't demand that you hold your wife's legs up |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:28 PM Author: odious chestnut stage Lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494706) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:37 PM Author: clear old irish cottage my ex is a nurse practioner midwife who worked at a birth center.
they send people to the hospital if there is any inkling of a problem. they are all scared shitless of medmal. i dated her for a year and she would talk about her job constantly. in the entire time i knew her there was exactly 1 really bad outcome (dead babby), but it was something that sending them to the hospital earlier would not have helped. i learned a lot about how much hospital birth sucks for most people and is completely unnecessary. i'll definitely do a birth center birth.
i'd avoid retarded doulas and home births though. home births with an np might be ok, but i wouldn't risk it. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:42 PM Author: House-broken Seedy Sanctuary Associate are you planning to tell your wife that your faith in birth centers comes from your ex? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494793) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:44 PM Author: clear old irish cottage sure, she already knows all about her.
current gf is on the marriage track. midwife ex was the one right before her. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:45 PM Author: dark community account hospital 3x, she never took drugs, they never pushed em, extremely natural. what benefit are you looking for? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494814) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:48 PM Author: clear old irish cottage a hot 20 something hippie bitch who actually gives a shit is helping your wife rather than a hoard of overweight nig nurses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494834) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:48 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier did ur wife take classes on beathing techniques and shit? how easy was the natural birth? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494838) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 4:39 PM Author: dark community account a couple. its not hard--well your first will be when you figure out if your wife is made for it or not. 2-3 were EASY. 3 she had to slow down to let the doc come in to catch.
im sure its different where you are but we had a mix of white and mex nurses who were cool. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 9:59 PM Author: Provocative Range natural birth is not hard, bro. it's just very painful, but women have been doing natural birth for thousands and thousands of years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496938) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 3:47 PM Author: harsh mediation “Home birth” seems like some goy BS. Surprised you’re thinking about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40494822) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 4:41 PM Author: Nudist alcoholic center If it’s a good hospital and you like the OB, then a hospital birth doesn’t have to be the horror stories you’ve read about. There was a lot of comfort having my wife and baby at Stanford / Packard where if something went wrong (low chance but big problem if it does) there were people a lot smarter than I am to handle and advise. Obvioisly avoid some shit hospital with gabby fat black bitch nurses walking 0.2 mph in front of you.
Re: epidurals, I agree with GTTTR and this thread generally: PDDJ has no idea what it’s like until she’s in the heat of the moment, so I would lean strongly toward having options. No one pushed my wife to have an epidural or C section either time and when baby #1 got stuck and my wife got tired, the resident came to me to talk about options (ended up with foreceps, which worked - C was the last option). I found it very hard to see my wife in such pain and was grateful that she got the epidural - it was relatively calm rather than the swearing, throwing things, etc. in movies.
Also, the walking around, etc. seems like total flame to me. I get it during very early stages, but by the time an epidural is an option, lol at her wanting to go for a stroll or chill out on an exercise ball. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 7:27 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier tyft. vewy helpful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496072) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 10:54 PM Author: exhilarant philosopher-king puppy Co-signed
With my first I waited about 5-6 hours before I finally caved and got the epidural. I tried a few things during contractions but really just wanted to lie in bed. I tried nubain, which I do NOT recommend. It just made me feel out of it and did nothing for the pain.
Keep in mind also that your first one is likely going to require HOURS of pushing. Not just labor. Active pushing. Your first one for sure needs to be in a hospital. Is she prone to tearing? Does she have any anatomical or other issues that might cause complications or make a natural delivery difficult? You don't know how she'll handle it yet. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:08 PM Author: Umber cumskin Lol your wife’s going to be begging for meds within 10 min.
I was in labor for 33 fucking hours before emergency c-section. Lol at some retarded doula telling you to “breathe” through it.
You sound like a placenta eating anti-vaxxer hippie/ortho.
Also aren’t you both cheap asses? Ready to pay $10-20k out of pocket for some hippie services who aren’t covered under insurance? |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:14 PM Author: harsh mediation Lol cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40495356) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:21 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine i think PDDJ will maek it without an epidural. she seems like a strong woman
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Date: June 25th, 2020 6:20 PM Author: Umber cumskin The women who have grand plans for a natural birth are the ones least likely to make it. Things never go according to plan.
Same can be said for people who have tons of preconceived notions about how they’re never going to do this or that as a parent and DBG and PDDJ are already full of kooky ideas. |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 7:25 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496059) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 10:00 PM Author: Provocative Range CR, I planned on getting an epidural and then had a natural birth (not by choice) despite begging for meds. I only pushed for 15 minutes and out baby came. ALL NOT TO PLAN. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496950) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 11:07 PM Author: vivacious flushed hominid shrine my reasoning is that if she can put up with DBG, childbirth should be a joke in comparison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497315) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:55 AM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497874) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 5:27 PM Author: citrine school Some hospitals have birth centers or midwife units.
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Date: June 25th, 2020 6:25 PM Author: Lilac heady prole Imagine logging onto XO in 2007 and seeing this was the most popular thread for the day and full of substantive discussion by dozens of poasters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40495730) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 7:28 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier tbf in xo 2007 we had "ladies threads" w 200 poast threads about bathroom candles (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496076) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 7:27 PM Author: Dull jet-lagged native Absolutely awful idea (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496070) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:22 PM Author: Maize goyim ^dat murse expertise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496431) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:34 PM Author: Dull jet-lagged native Goddamn this board got rapidly filled with absolutely awful posters (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496514) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:42 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496546) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:47 PM Author: Dull jet-lagged native LOL, what ever happened with your big lawsuit you retard?
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4524374&mc=41&forum_id=2 |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:34 AM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier my lawsuit? poor RC? this was a friend. the husband's dad is a doctor and they're not litigious people, so they didn't want to deal with the emotional stress of a lawsuit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497770) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 8:50 AM Author: Dull jet-lagged native LOL how magnanimous! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40498555) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:21 PM Author: Maize goyim remarkable poast moniker synergy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496424) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:24 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496442) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:51 PM Author: bateful claret son of senegal school cafeteria listen idiot, have your child born in a hospital. don't be a fucking idiot about this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496591) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 8:56 PM Author: Dull jet-lagged native It might be better if this hellspawn he created doesn’t get to enter the gene pool (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40496614) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:36 AM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier it's decided (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497786) |
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Date: June 25th, 2020 10:24 PM Author: stubborn concupiscible gunner Lmao
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:38 AM Author: talented indigo really tough guy what's the point of any of this? go to a fucking hospital. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497800) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:39 AM Author: Spruce twinkling uncleanness God no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497809) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:55 AM Author: flesh office deer antler The reason we have modern medicine is so that your wife would have the privilege of giving birth in a safe environment, with experienced medical professionals and top-class medical facilities around and with as little pain and risk of injury or death to her or the baby as possible. Again, this is a PRIVILEGE that was not available to most people in history and is not available to many people around the world today.
People who decide to forgo this to experience a "natural" birth, with "doulas," "home births," and the other stupid rainbow/unicorn/flower power shit are fucktards, and you should not listen to a word they say.
I assume that you made this thread because your wife wants to experience something like this. If so, LOL at you and your choices in life. |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 1:00 AM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier my wife is voting for trump in 2020 and deosnt care about hippie shit. as good as modern medicine is, it has its ills -- c-sections are overdone (lazy and greedy docs and hospitals), half of america are drowning in five different opiods, doctors practice defensive medicine due to lawsuits and do tons of unnecessary procedures and surgeries, etc. there's a balance between taking advantage of modern medicine and trying to avoid its ills. obviously, in this case, a hospital is safest for childbirth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40497891) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 8:51 AM Author: 180 deep church CR. 4X hospitals with painkillers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40498563) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 10:46 AM Author: Electric Cyan Stock Car Selfie I'm usually all for contrarian opinions, but you are getting correct views in this thread. Non-hospital births are persistently ~1% of total births. You don't need to talk to very many people in this camp to realize that they are total fucking nuts, on par with anti-vaxxers in terms of their attachment to opposing the medical establishment without any regard to evidence. The home birth team runs the gamut from pregnant teens and cult members to totally flaky hippies. You hear a lot about midwives, home birth, etc. because the advocates for it LOVE talking, writing books, teaching classes, etc. Before I did any research, I thought that home birth would be something like 25%. But it is 1% - and it is usually a pretty safe bet that when a decision breaks 99%-1%, the 1% hasn't accidentally stumbled upon a secret great idea. But because the 1% is so loud and women in general are not very rational, a large set of women live on the fringes on this issue and need a dad to tell them to go to the hospital.
The measured outcomes for non-hospital birth look acceptable only because (a) there is a constituency very interested in massaging the data to make non-hospital birth look ok and (b) anyone who has been a midwife for more than a year transfers all high-risk patients and all complications to the hospital. The reality is that if you exposed non-hospital midwives to an equivalent sample of deliveries as what hospitals see, the rates of mother and child deaths and complications would be disastrous.
There are a few birth details where you can draw some wisdom from the hippie crowd and apply to your hospital birth. US doctors do far too many C-sections and you should have a bias towards avoiding except where it is clearly the safer route. Also it is better to keep moving around for as long as you can. Hospitals are getting smarter on this point, but in the old days they would sometimes admit women who were not very dilated, given them an early epidural, and then have them lay down in labor for hours and hours. Even for a first birth, you can pop out a baby pretty quickly, but there is a long run-up period before the pushing and if you are immobilized in a bed on drugs it goes slowly and sucks. Nurses/midwives/doulas/non-autistic family members (if available) can often provide a lot more emotional support and useful guidance than your typical OB-GYN (who is bored with regular births and is mostly there for the rare cases where something goes terribly wrong). But for all its faults, you still want to be in hospital. |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:26 PM Author: Ruddy Stage Ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40499587) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:34 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier ty for all this. agree w everything ur saying, esp that hospitals have their faults but are clearly the better option. BUT i take issue with this:
>> (b) anyone who has been a midwife for more than a year transfers all high-risk patients and all complications to the hospital. The reality is that if you exposed non-hospital midwives to an equivalent sample of deliveries as what hospitals see, the rates of mother and child deaths and complications would be disastrous.
doesn't this cut against your point? a responsible mid-wife avoids disasters by not dealing w high risk patients and transferring complications. nobody said a mid-wife is equipped to deal with the complicated high risk pregnancies. but if the woman is young and healthy, why is it relevant that the midwife is unequipped to deal with high risk pregnancies?
you could argue that the midwife is unequipped to deal with emergency situations and it wastes valuable time to send the woman to the hospital in an emergency situation. but that's a different argument than saying midwives are bad for young healthy women because they would fuck up high-risk births. |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 1:09 PM Author: Electric Cyan Stock Car Selfie I didn’t spell out this side of my view, but also pretty sure that if you looked at the low risk population in isolation, hospitals have almost zero preventable bad outcomes, while midwives have a higher but still very low rate of bad outcomes. You’ll probably do fine with a midwife because most healthy women with nothing going on would probably do fine just pushing the bay out alone. But why take the small risk for no reason?
Also there is a huge range within the midwife community - some are probably as good as the typical doctor and some are much, much worse. There are basically no terrible OB-GYNs because the barriers to entry are high, you get same challenging cases regularly so there is good data on whether you are competent, and hospitals and insurance companies will destroy your career if you fuck up at all on their dime. You get bad midwives in the following categories: new, lucky, inflated ego not matched by skills, ok under normal circumstances but panics under pressure, etc. there is no upside for you as an outsider to this world trying to discern whether you have found a midwife who will get you to basically the same place as hospital and doc, or a batshit crazy hippie who will kill your whole family. |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 1:12 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier good analysis. but:
>>There are basically no terrible OB-GYNs because the barriers to entry are high
all the OBs who are unnecessarily performing c-sections due to greed or laziness, i'd say, are terrible OBs. an unnecessary c-section might not be lethal in the same way that an incompetent midwife can kill you. but subjecting women to unnecessary surgery that's riskier is still terrible. |
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Date: June 27th, 2020 3:37 PM Author: Provocative Range barriers were not that high even 10 years ago, let alone when boomers were going to med school
just look at the Dr. Death thread |
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Date: June 27th, 2020 11:57 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier cr. xo has an inflated confidence in doctors ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40508005) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 10:57 AM Author: thriller khaki dragon My sister had an emergency c-section when the baby would not come out and the baby's oxygen was being cut off. Not to put too fine a point on it but apparently her pussy was too tight for baby's head.
I wonder what would have happened if she needed 10 minutes to get to a hospital. You stupid dumbass idiot. |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:31 PM Author: Primrose stimulating codepig plenty of people having kids, just fine. hospitals aren't letting covid risks near maternity areas. next excuse for your barren shiksa? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40499613) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:35 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier poor RC? how is she barren? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40499651) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 12:58 PM Author: useless pit stain JFC why is this awful thread still alive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40499816) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 1:13 PM Author: Twisted transparent ticket booth sound barrier why are u so angry? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40499921) |
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Date: June 26th, 2020 4:28 PM Author: useless pit stain Because I want fan fiction about SKADDEN ARPS in SPACE. If I wanted to discuss BIRTHING I'd poast on DCUrbanMom. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4569838&forum_id=2,#40501349) |