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Why were early Christian martyrs so gung ho
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 7th, 2020 11:47 PM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565495) |
Date: July 7th, 2020 11:51 PM Author: kira kira Faith ❤️ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565532) |
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Date: July 7th, 2020 11:56 PM Author: kira kira Also, martyrdom is an effective strategy when advocating for a certain ideology. I’m not saying the early Christians martyred themselves for any reason but pure faith, but it’s true. Martyrdom had become so popular as the Roman Empire entered its final centuries that Early Church authorities had to tell Christians not to go out of their way to get martyred because that defeats the point of martyrdom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565550) |
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Date: July 7th, 2020 11:59 PM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. What about the idea that there are innumerable random religious variations and only the ones with martyrs survive, so you’d expect the dominant religion to have martyrs because it’s a necessary condition of being a dominant religion?
That actually proves the truth of God in Christ because it shows sacrifice is at the heart of reality / the suffering servant is the ultimate truth / logos. Christianity is such a good religion. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:00 AM Author: kira kira (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565574) |
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Date: July 7th, 2020 11:51 PM Author: ;;;;...;,;,;,;.;.;;.;,;.;.;.;.;;;;...,,,..,;;.;,.; cq. it's almost like they knew something we don't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565535) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:00 AM Author: tedbeckersted funny how that works out.
a bunch of dudes see their friend do a bunch of miracles over 3 years, get murdered, wake up after 3 days and then, for a finale, go up into space. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:02 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565581) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:01 AM Author: ..........,.,,.,.,..,...,.,.,.... (luis) because the late pagans were so degenerate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565576) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:05 AM Author: kira kira BRUH JUST BURN THIS INCENSE FOR JUPITER AT THE TEMPLE BRAH AND WE WONT HURT YOU JUST DENY YOUR GOD BRAH HE’LL FORGIVE YOU WE REALLY DONT WANNA KILL U BUT WE’RE GONNA HAVE TO IF U DONT BRAH PLS
-late Roman pagans |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:07 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565604) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:09 AM Author: ..........,.,,.,.,..,...,.,.,.... (luis) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565611) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:05 AM Author: .,.,.,.,,,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,,.,,.,,.,,.,.,,, Life was very very hard then. The kingdom of heaven message was extremely appealing to your average squalid slave laborer. Christianity was revolutionary in that it didn’t have castes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565596) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:06 AM Author: kira kira (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565597) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:07 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. I will never be so desperate that I’m filled with that much of his spirit. Remarkably sad and alienating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565602) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:14 AM Author: kira kira Jesus’ spirit? He’s right there waiting for you. Try talking to him. You may be surprised (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565623) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:15 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. Thank
I saw a couple of nuns at the grocery store today. I said HI in my best happy Evangelical voice and they ignored me lol |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:21 AM Author: kira kira Hm. I bet they were just going about their shopping and were extra on guard which makes sense in this day and age (what happened in St. Louis, for example). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565655) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:24 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. Yes they seemed a bit troubled, they were also not speaking English. How nice to see them and feel their devotion out of the blue like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565674) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:25 AM Author: kira kira (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40565679) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 2:35 AM Author: Frank Lloyd Wrong Christianity spread to Alexandria and got mixed up and co-opted by greek mysticism
A Syrian named Tatian had visited Rome and developed a hatred for Pagans. Then he goes to Alexandria and pagan butt fucker greek sophists there are influencing the development of christianity with their hellenic bullshit so he basically starts a sect that rejects all of this disgusting nonsense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatian
The Encratites rejected Greek culture, pleasure seeking in any form, etc, really fundamentalist, they basically followed every principle to its logical extreme.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encratites
Martyr is just the greek word for witness and it originally just meant bearing witness, testimony, etc. and had nothing to do with being killed. but the most extreme way to bear witness for them was basically reenacting christ's death. The Encratites were a highly persecuted heretical sect and had plenty of opportunities to be martyred. They eventually died out but leaders saw how effective martyrdom could be and co-opted the theology that had developed around it. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 2:49 AM Author: kira kira I'm not necessarily disagreeing with any particular point of yours but it's important to keep in mind that Christian martyrdom originated with Christ. Christ was the first Christian martyr-- the next, as far as we know, was St. Stephen.
If you read the Acts of the Martyrs, you'll see that despite the various manners in which martyrs were killed, all descriptions are reminiscent of Christ's death (in some cases, perfumes or rich minerals would emanate from the corpse or the corpse would become indestructible to prevent the mob from desecrating it). The main underlying theme/lesson connecting these stories is that imitation of our Lord is essential to being Christian and one should not shy away from carrying on Christ's work. One should strive to mirror His life in his or her actions, even if that requires going to extremes (the most extreme imitation of Christ's life = dying for the faith). |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 2:58 AM Author: Frank Lloyd Wrong Martyrdom was initially discouraged and so was the wish to be assimilated to christ, these were gnostic heresies and Paul preached a grounded understanding of Christ as a second Adam. This all changed later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566224) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:02 AM Author: kira kira Yeah I know about the Adam-Christ typology pretty well. It's a bit more complex than that.
Not trying to argue here- genuinely interested- but source(s) on the "martyrdom was initially discouraged" part of your statement? The martyrdom St. Felicitas/Perpetua took place in the first century, I believe. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:03 AM Author: Frank Lloyd Wrong Paul died some time in 65 AD and nobody wrote that he was martyred until 50 years later. Hmm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566239) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:14 AM Author: kira kira Can you just provide a source bro. I'm genuinely interested and am not trying to be difficult. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566268) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 9:22 PM Author: Frank Lloyd Wrong https://www.amazon.com/History-Christian-Spirituality-Introduction-Episcopalian/dp/0819219142/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40570789) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 9:56 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. Christ wasn't a martyr because hes not dead (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566915) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:11 PM Author: kira kira Nah he is definitely a martyr. He died then rose from the dead. Ever heard the phrase, “Christ died for our sins”? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567663) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:13 PM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. John Foxe in his important Book of Martyrs published in 1563 writes, "The first to suffer for the Church was Jesus Himself - not a martyr, of course, but the inspiration and source of all martyrdom" (new translation) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567679) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:15 PM Author: kira kira Would like to see how that compares to official Church doctrine. I don’t know if Fox was a Catholic.
Even if the title “martyr” isn’t applicable to Christ, it’s undeniable that the early Christian martyrs strove to imitate Christ in their deaths. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:21 PM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. im sure reasonable people can disagree about whether Christ was a martyr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567725) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:23 PM Author: kira kira For sure Not being sarcastic |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 2:51 AM Author: ,.,...,..,.,.,;:,.:,.,.,::,,,,..,:,.,.:.:.,:.::,. Lol u got btfo by gjr
Christ was the first martyr |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:19 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. Christ wasn't a martyr because hes not dead
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Date: July 8th, 2020 9:20 PM Author: Frank Lloyd Wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40570783) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 7:56 PM Author: bobert b. birdshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40570338) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:26 AM Author: ////||\|\\\||\|||||\||\\| Truthfully, there weren't that many of them. But, more to the point of your question, which is why the ~martyrs~ were so gung ho, the answer requires a knowledge of Roman society at the time. It was very socially stratified, with a well defined patrician and plebeian class.
Becoming a martyr was an easy way for an otherwise unremarkable plebeian to make their mark on history and be elevated to Sainthood. It was seen as a badge of honor to die for the cause, Christianity. It got to the point where it became somewhat of a competition, whereby the more brutally one was tortured for their beliefs the more famous that person became. There was even a group known as the circumcellions who were a Roman-era suicide4Jesus pact, believing that dying for the cause was tantamount to martyrdom, although they were an object of scorn for prominent Christians like Augustine, who believed they were nothing more than a death sect.
Reading a book right now that discusses this very topic, the Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World, it's a pretty easy read if you're looking for more information. |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:31 AM Author: kira kira this is a really good poast
i do think they were pretty numerous though, esp. if you take into account that early christian martyr incidents over the course of centuries, albeit sporadically |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 3:47 AM Author: ,.,...,..,.,.,;:,.:,.,.,::,,,,..,:,.,.:.:.,:.::,. This book sucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566356) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 4:11 AM Author: ////||\|\\\||\|||||\||\\| You suck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40566392) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:02 AM Author: ,..,..,.,,.,....,....,,,.....,.... https://external-preview.redd.it/2vtdWxGvTB3IPifiI2xprt8etXx6km4nhPGItG-3XeY.jpg?auto=webp&s=aebbb89c5ba53f070c0d5d54cd3029b71c109d13
really makes u think |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:03 AM Author: .,.,,.,..,.,.,:,,:,..,:::,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,. *shades in an area labled SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT* in microsoft paint
"hehe im a scientist too" |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:10 PM Author: kira kira (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567654) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:19 AM Author: ,...,.,..,.. So I'm sure that China, the Indus Valley, the Muslim world, and the Americas progressed in science faster than Europe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567003) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:46 AM Author: ,..,..,.,,.,....,....,,,.....,.... The Indians were held back because Jesus came to America after leaving the Middle East. Joseph Smith blew the lid off this whole scam. You can look it up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567122) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 11:43 AM Author: ..........,.,,.,.,..,...,.,.,.... (luis) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567451) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:48 AM Author: ......;,;.,;,,.,;,.,;,.;;,.,;,..,.,;,.,.;, lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567130) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 12:10 PM Author: kira kira LMAOOO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567656) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 10:24 AM Author: '""''''" Their Jew handlers brainwashed them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40567028) |
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Date: July 8th, 2020 9:24 PM Author: ....,.,.,.,;,.,;,,,,,,,,,;,;:.:.,,,. Heaven (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4578951&forum_id=2,#40570798) |