When was Christianity's turning point in the West? Where was it lost?
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Date: November 12th, 2020 11:36 AM Author: cracking lake newt business firm
I cannot even conceive of a re-animated Christian west. Beyond the plummeting demographics of self-identifying Christians (mainstream Protestants hit zero by 2050, Christians in general hit zero before century's end), the ontological framework is just not present. However we are building westerners, we are not building them to be Christians anymore.
There are a million possible points-of-no-return: Luther, Darwin, WWI, Vatican II seem to be popular answers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41349881)
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Date: November 12th, 2020 11:43 AM Author: dashing sneaky criminal gunner
I think youve hit the big ones.
Luther signaled the church's inability to contain reform. There was no good reason Rome couldnt have accepted that corruption had gotten a little out of hand and kept Europe under one church. It had managed this for centuries.
After Luther, there was literally room to do something different without total social opprobrium. Whatever his good points, the path to dyke pastors in trans-acceptance-colored gowns playing mini-golf in empty cathedrals was a direct line.
Darwin ushered in the notion that to be "smart" was to be hostile to the church. Proles have been retarded forever, but before the scientific and tech stuff they assumed their betters were men of faith. With the popularization of Darwin and Science, the guiding assumption of proles was that it signaled intelligence to be a non-believer.
In ww1 the church showed that its moral teaching could not prevent the near-extinction of a generation of men. Christianity's european fortress watched its youth slaughtered not by any outside enemy, but by itself, and Christianity could offer no way out. After that war, no one could go forward with any full-hearted sincerity anymore.
And, of course, VII just signaled the final capitulation. Traditions that had held firm for a thousand years bent the knee to acoustic guitars and modernism.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41349929) |
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Date: November 12th, 2020 11:55 AM Author: twinkling trailer park generalized bond
"In ww1 the church showed that its moral teaching could not prevent the near-extinction of a generation of men. Christianity's european fortress watched its youth slaughtered not by any outside enemy, but by itself, and Christianity could offer no way out. After that war, no one could go forward with any full-hearted sincerity anymore."
I think this is the main thing. WWI was the death knell of the West and it never fully recovered.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41350012) |
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Date: November 12th, 2020 11:51 AM Author: wine 180 locale
The crusades and inquisitions were fine. By the way, Torquemada was a convert from Judaism.
The world wars have nothing to do with anything here.
This is about culture and the general decline of the West
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41349977) |
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Date: November 12th, 2020 11:54 AM Author: dashing sneaky criminal gunner
the crusades and inquisitions were a sign of vitality. Any vital culture will fight for more space around its borders, will try to reclaim lost lands, and will have a juridical method for protecting its central dogma.
an outsider might not *like* these, but they are central to the life-force of any vital society.
btw, your very standard for criticizing them is a christian one (you should be LOVING your enemies!)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41350004) |
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Date: November 12th, 2020 12:09 PM Author: dashing sneaky criminal gunner
a valid criticism would not be "hypocrites!", but rather "if everyone breaks this rule, maybe the rule is flawed"
this gets to a really interesting thread in christianity, imo.
as a religion developed by a colonized, powerless people, it developed its ethic as a kind of moderating function. Jesus of the NT doesnt say overthrow the system and implement economic equality, he says give more to the poor. He doesnt say tear down the prisons, he says visit the inmates. He doesnt say liberate women, but just be merciful to prostitutes.
These arent moral rules that you can use to run an empire, they are rules you can use to humanize an empire someone more ruthless is already running.
It may be an inherent flaw that seeded Christianity's fall, I dunno. But im interested in int
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41350138) |
Date: November 12th, 2020 12:08 PM Author: Violet passionate masturbator faggot firefighter
The Industrial Revolution and concomitant increase in standards of living. When people are comfortable, they forget about their Creator. When danger and death are near, they seek refuge in Him.
Material circumstances have psychological and ultimately spiritual effects.
"For when I have brought them into the land flowing with milk and honey, which I swore to give to their fathers, and they have eaten and are full and grown fat, they will turn to other gods and serve them, and despise me and break my covenant."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41350127) |
Date: November 13th, 2020 1:04 AM Author: deranged primrose public bath
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “‘He will command his angels concerning you,’ and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’” Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4687218&forum_id=2#41355766) |
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