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How bad is work life balance in Japan?

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  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
if the US wanted a Japan style ethno state than every single...
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  02/12/21
MFCR. Exactly!
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it-subthread: racists pieces of shits circle-jerking each ot...
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  02/13/21
learn to speak fucking english holy fuck
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  02/13/21
that's racist
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I think I'd sacrifice the continued genetics of my failed pe...
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The slice of contemporary Japanese life of keenest interest ...
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"We’ve mentioned that your company considers it i...
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Horrible, and every foreigner who gets a Japanese job wants ...
vengeful know-it-all chad
  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
I'm not from there quotefag
vengeful know-it-all chad
  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
I'm not in israel right now either. That famous Asian IQ ...
vengeful know-it-all chad
  02/12/21
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mischievous charismatic national security agency senate
  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
Yeah bro so many kike colleagues here. You're a genius just ...
vengeful know-it-all chad
  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
No one I work with is from there either, Charlie.
vengeful know-it-all chad
  02/12/21
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Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike
  02/12/21
Cr. Salarymen have been desperate since 1988
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  02/12/21
I think I'd rather just do the shut-in anime pillow GF thing
pungent national
  02/12/21
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  02/12/21
cr
stimulating church building
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hikikomori are doing it right
poppy wonderful marketing idea
  02/13/21
Depends. Ex-pat in Japan or a mid level Japanese salaryman/o...
hideous duck-like space messiness
  02/12/21
I assume it's good for gaijin because they aren't working th...
provocative khaki doctorate
  02/12/21
So basically biglaw hours but with job security and a guaran...
Obsidian hospital place of business
  02/12/21
The old Japanese bar had a 2% pass rate
adventurous persian ceo
  02/13/21
Prestigious
Mint bossy sneaky criminal
  02/13/21
180
Aromatic smoky base
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The dearth of litigation has resurrected Takarimatsu, a gris...
Exciting Stubborn Resort
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Obsidian hospital place of business
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He stocks shelves in a Seattle-area grocery store and has do...
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It's far more than stocking, believe me.
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anyone remember that article about the expat living in Japan...
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180
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180 tyft
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Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:24 PM
Author: Citrine bespoke ticket booth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935550)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:30 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935567)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:33 PM
Author: excitant jade travel guidebook

if the US wanted a Japan style ethno state than every single non-English fuckturd must be deported or genocided. HTH

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935582)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:09 PM
Author: Thriller pit generalized bond

MFCR. Exactly!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936038)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:09 AM
Author: ivory vigorous hairy legs

it-subthread: racists pieces of shits circle-jerking each other

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936345)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 3:00 AM
Author: Aromatic smoky base

learn to speak fucking english holy fuck

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936652)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:47 PM
Author: Lake pea-brained boltzmann queen of the night

that's racist

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938167)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 5:43 PM
Author: Indecent Glittery Lodge Police Squad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41939425)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:34 PM
Author: Bat-shit-crazy Razzmatazz Keepsake Machete

I think I'd sacrifice the continued genetics of my failed people to make my offspring a part of that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935584)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:54 PM
Author: Garnet whorehouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935682)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:08 PM
Author: Thriller pit generalized bond



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936034)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:46 PM
Author: Coiffed Orchid Site Trust Fund

The slice of contemporary Japanese life of keenest interest to you is dominated by one particular relationship: that of the Japanese salaryman to his employer. If you understand this relationship, it is almost a Rosetta stone. You’ll immediately be able to predict true things about the world like “Japanese startups probably have huge difficulties in hiring.” (About which, more later.)

A salaryman (transliterated from the Japanese which is itself borrowed from English), more formally a “full-time company employee” (正社員), is the local equivalent of a W-2 employee in America. This is roughly 1/3rd of the labor force in Japan, but it has outsized societal impact.

Traditionally, salarymen (and they are, by the way, mostly men) are hired into a particular company late in university and stay at that company or its affiliates until they retire.

There are other workers at Japanese companies — contract employees, who can be (and are) let go at will, or young ladies on the “pink collar” track who are encouraged tacitly or explicitly to quit to get married or raise children — but the salaryman/employer relationship is the beating heart of the high-productivity Japanese private sector. (The Japanese economy is roughly 1/3rd the public sector, 1/3rd low-productivity firms like restaurants or traditional craftsmen, and 1/3rd high-productivity household-name megacorps. Salarymen are mostly present in the last one, which happens to dovetail with your professional interests.)

The salaryman/employer relationship is best characterized as “You swear yourself to us, body and soul, and in return we will isolate you from all risks.”

The employee hereby promises the company: Your first obligation, in all things, will be to your company. You will work incredibly hard (90+ hour weeks barely even occasion comment) on their behalf. The company can ask you to head to a foreign office for three years without your wife and child beginning tomorrow, and you will be expected to say “Sure thing, when does my flight leave?” or accept that your career advancement is functionally over.

The company will mold you to their exacting specifications to do whatever form of service they require. You will happily comply, in this as in all things. For example, if your company needs a Java-speaking systems engineer and you have a degree in Art History, this is not a problem because you can be fixed. Sure it might take ten years and only work on a quarter of the new hires but that’s why we employ you for 45 years and hire a hundred at once! (What of the Art History majors who don’t successfully learn how to edit XML files or architect web applications? Well, they’ll be promoted in lockstep with the rest of their cohort, but tasks which actually require programming with magically route around them, and they’ll end up doing things like leading 6 hour planning meetings and producing spreadsheets. Lots and lots of spreadsheets.)

The company hereby promises the employee: Your company will provide structure and purpose for your life. You will be clothed in the company colors, literally and figuratively. You will be respected, inside and outside the company, as befits an employee of ours. You will be provided with benefits perfectly calibrated to allow you and your family to lead a middle-class Japanese life. Your children will go to as good schools as they test into. Your wife will be able to afford an annual trip to Hawaii with her girlfriends.

You probably won’t attend that trip because, as a salaryman, you wouldn’t want to leave your coworkers in the lurch by taking extended vacations. Your company officially allows you between 12 and 18 combined vacation/sick days a year, but salarymen generally try to hold themselves to about 5, taken in single-day increments. Your company loves you and wants you to be happy, though, so they’ll suggest two days for your honeymoon, two if a parent passes away, and one if your wife passes away. You can take that Saturday off, too, because the company is generous. There, that’s like four full days — five, if you time it with a public holiday.

There exist companies which don’t require their salarymen to work Saturdays. That is considered almost decadent for salarymen — the more typical schedules are either “2 Saturdays a month off” or “every Sunday off!” Even if you’re not required to work Saturdays, if one’s projects or the company’s situation requires you to work Saturdays, you work Saturdays. See also, Sundays.

Salarymen work large amounts of overtime, although much of it is for appearance’s sake rather than because it actually accomplishes more productive work. Depending on one’s company, this overtime may be compensated or “service overtime” — “service” in Japanese means “thrown in for free in the hopes of gaining one’s further custom”, so your favorite restaurant might throw in a “service” desert once in a while or you might do 8 hours of “service” overtime six nights a week for 15 years.

At those companies which actually pay for overtime (not uncommon, even for professional salaried employees, even for those who would characteristically be exempt in the US), there are generally multiple rates. I got time and a quarter between 6:30 and 9:30 AM, time and a half until midnight, and time and three quarters after 1:00 AM. That last bracket was there for a reason.

It is highly unlikely that anyone will ever tell you “We need you here until 3 AM. Yeah, sorry, tell you what, take off early at 9 PM tomorrow.” The company is just steeped in an environment which will make this decision seem like the most natural thing in the world to you. To leave early would let your team down. To make a habit of it would cause people to question your commitment to the company and to the important work that the company does. It will become so natural to work salaryman hours that you’ll teach their necessity to junior employees who you mentor, probably without you even realizing you’re doing it.

Don’t have a wife? You might quite reasonably think “I don’t have time to even think about that.” Don’t worry — the company will fix your social calendar for you. It is socially mandatory that your boss, in fulfillment of his duties to you, sees that you are set up with a young lady appropriate to your station. He is likely to attempt to do this first by matching you with a young lady in your office. There are, at all times, a number of unattached young ladies in your office. Most of them choose to quit right about when they get married or have children.

You might imagine that you heard a supervisor tell a young lady in the office “Hey, you’re 30 and aging out of the marriage market, plus I hear you’re dating someone who is not one of my employees, so you might want to think about moving on soon.”, but that would be radioactively illegal, since Japanese employment discrimination laws are approximately equivalent to those in the US. A first-rate Japanese company would certainly never do anything illegal, and a proper Japanese salaryman would never bring his company into disrepute by saying obviously untrue things like the company is systematically engaged in illegal practices. So your ears must be deceiving you. Pesky ears.

The company is your public life. Have an issue with your landlord? The company will handle it, in those cases where the company is not your landlord. (“So let me get this straight: we’re going to pay our employees, and then they’re going to immediately hand 25% of their salary over to an apartment? Doesn’t this suggest an obvious inefficiency? We could just buy a building and house dozens of employees there — lower transaction costs plus economies of scale.” Many Japanese companies have done this math already, and company dorms are quite common, particularly for young, single employees.)

Need to file paperwork with City Hall? Someone from HR can do it for you. Salarymen don’t file tax returns — the National Tax Agency and HR work out 100% of the paperwork on their behalves. Insurance? Handled. Pension? You’re sorted. Immigration, for those very rare salarymen who are also foreigners? Your CEO has written a letter to the Minister of Justice for inclusion with the paperwork that HR has put together, and you won’t even have to carry it into the office.

The company is your private life. All friends you’ve made since your school days almost by definition work for your company, because you spend substantially every waking hour officially at work or at quote leisure unquote with people from work. When you get off work rather early, like 7:30 PM, you’ll be strongly encouraged to go out to dinner and/or drinks with bosses, coworkers, and/or business acquaintances. (The company is buying, either directly via an expense account or indirectly via a “The most senior person pays and their salary has been precisely calibrated to accommodate this” cultural norm.) Like karaoke and golf? Wonderful, you’ll have an excellent time with the other salarymen, who have either perfected the skill of liking karaoke and golf or seeming to like karaoke and golf when invited out by colleagues.

We’ve mentioned that your company considers it its responsibility to see you appropriately married. That is not the sole way in which the company may try to arrange companionship, but let’s table that issue for the moment. When you get married, your boss will give the longest speech at your wedding, praising your diligence on that last project and bright future with the firm. Perhaps eight or so coworkers will show up. They’ll also take up a collection for you if a parent should pass away, come visit if you’re hospitalized, and offer to intercede if you should have trouble with your wife or children. You are, after all, one of the family.

Lifetime employment is somewhat on the outs in the last 20 years or so, but it is still a reasonably achievable thing in 2014, and an expectation that many Japanese folks quite literally structure their entire lives around. An offer of employment as a salaryman, while theoretically instantiated as a e.g. three year employment contract with “renewal upon mutual agreement”, is (practically speaking) a promise that one will be promoted on a defined schedule for one’s entire working career.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935646)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 9:53 PM
Author: Passionate metal roast beef stage

"We’ve mentioned that your company considers it its responsibility to see you appropriately married. That is not the sole way in which the company may try to arrange companionship, but let’s table that issue for the moment. When you get married, your boss will give the longest speech at your wedding, praising your diligence on that last project and bright future with the firm. Perhaps eight or so coworkers will show up. They’ll also take up a collection for you if a parent should pass away, come visit if you’re hospitalized, and offer to intercede if you should have trouble with your wife or children. You are, after all, one of the family.

Lifetime employment is somewhat on the outs in the last 20 years or so, but it is still a reasonably achievable thing in 2014, and an expectation that many Japanese folks quite literally structure their entire lives around. An offer of employment as a salaryman, while theoretically instantiated as a e.g. three year employment contract with “renewal upon mutual agreement”, is (practically speaking) a promise that one will be promoted on a defined schedule for one’s entire working career."

sounds 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935679)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 10:11 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935768)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:03 AM
Author: Submissive bawdyhouse knife



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936514)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 8:56 AM
Author: stirring purple native genital piercing



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936988)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 10:35 AM
Author: arousing sanctuary shitlib

Amazing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937239)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:15 PM
Author: comical university



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938041)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:42 PM
Author: cyan kitchen skinny woman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938151)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 10:38 PM
Author: vengeful know-it-all chad

Horrible, and every foreigner who gets a Japanese job wants out within a short time. The happy expats in Japan are all freelancers or WFH.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935908)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 10:46 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935930)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 10:53 PM
Author: vengeful know-it-all chad

I'm not from there quotefag

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41935956)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:00 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936000)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:05 PM
Author: vengeful know-it-all chad

I'm not in israel right now either.

That famous Asian IQ is clearly on display.

I RIKEA SARARYMAN

I RIKEA SHEE MY PAMIREE ON SUNDAY

HARR HARR I A WHITEUH SUPLEMACISTUH HARR HARR

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936021)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:09 PM
Author: mischievous charismatic national security agency senate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936036)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:17 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936087)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:19 PM
Author: vengeful know-it-all chad

Yeah bro so many kike colleagues here. You're a genius just like the cram school enrollment counselor said

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936102)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:20 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936107)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:24 PM
Author: vengeful know-it-all chad

No one I work with is from there either, Charlie.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936151)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:39 PM
Author: Cerebral confused theater stage preventive strike



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936243)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:08 PM
Author: insane clear legal warrant

Cr. Salarymen have been desperate since 1988

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936025)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:29 PM
Author: pungent national

I think I'd rather just do the shut-in anime pillow GF thing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936182)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:45 PM
Author: Obsidian hospital place of business



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936268)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:57 PM
Author: stimulating church building

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936306)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:02 AM
Author: poppy wonderful marketing idea

hikikomori are doing it right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936317)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:33 PM
Author: hideous duck-like space messiness

Depends. Ex-pat in Japan or a mid level Japanese salaryman/office lady?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936208)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:35 PM
Author: provocative khaki doctorate

I assume it's good for gaijin because they aren't working those 90 hour Japanese corporate jobs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936220)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 12th, 2021 11:46 PM
Author: Obsidian hospital place of business

So basically biglaw hours but with job security and a guarantee waifu?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936272)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:03 AM
Author: adventurous persian ceo

The old Japanese bar had a 2% pass rate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936321)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:21 AM
Author: Mint bossy sneaky criminal

Prestigious

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936540)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 3:02 AM
Author: Aromatic smoky base

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936656)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:09 AM
Author: Exciting Stubborn Resort

The dearth of litigation has resurrected Takarimatsu, a grisly legal tradition not seen for centuries. According to custom, a Japanese attorney must see his client's case to a successful conclusion or commit ritual suicide. A defeat in court -- or even a settlement -- can mean not only professional dishonor, but also death.

Tokyo attorney Shinji Nakagawa, 32, took his own life last year when his client insisted on settling his case rather than risking a lengthy court battle. Humiliated by his client's lack of confidence in his abilities, Nakagawa disemboweled himself with a sword before jumping in front of an approaching train.

"Japanese attorneys take their cases very seriously. To lose a case is to lose everything. It is very hard for Americans to understand this," said Makato Harayama.

http://yahoonews.com/japanese-lawyers-choose-death-before-dishonor-4687965431-htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936344)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:11 AM
Author: Obsidian hospital place of business



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936348)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 12:17 AM
Author: adventurous persian ceo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936363)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 13th, 2021 1:20 AM
Author: tan black woman incel

You’re either a genius grocery manager or a V50 partner. I wonder which is more likely on a lawboard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936538)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:25 AM
Author: exhilarant flickering heaven

He stocks shelves in a Seattle-area grocery store and has done so for over a decade

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936691)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:25 AM
Author: Exciting Stubborn Resort

It's far more than stocking, believe me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936693)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:33 AM
Author: Titillating Ruddy Circlehead Candlestick Maker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936551)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:43 AM
Author: electric stead bbw



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936558)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:03 AM
Author: Aromatic smoky base



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936657)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:08 AM
Author: charcoal nighttime indirect expression



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936665)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:42 AM
Author: violent soul-stirring volcanic crater gay wizard



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936964)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:46 AM
Author: mischievous charismatic national security agency senate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936972)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:00 AM
Author: stirring purple native genital piercing



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936994)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:24 PM
Author: Lascivious Maroon Lay

I want to hire you to write press releases for me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938072)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:45 PM
Author: cyan kitchen skinny woman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938160)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 4:58 PM
Author: flatulent dog poop area

Evan, you are a boart treasure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41939126)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:31 PM
Author: Henna telephone



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41940292)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:39 PM
Author: Mauve racy weed whacker theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41940322)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:48 AM
Author: talented angry degenerate nowag

anyone remember that article about the expat living in Japan. I think he asked for a loan to buy a laptop and was rejected and the bank manager was really apologetic about it. Years later, a new bank manager ended up taking over and the expat bought the guy some cigars or something out of tradition. it was a great read on Japanese business culture

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936560)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 2:55 AM
Author: insecure diverse stag film double fault

I believe you are talking about the following story. I remembered it was written by the same guy who wrote the stuff about salaryman culture up thread; turns out, it was in the same post:

> The Personal Touch

Doing business with Japanese companies frequently resembles It’s A Wonderful Life. “Customer relationships” are not an empty phrase — many business relationships where one is approximately equivalent to a row in the database in the United States are, instead, expected to be relationships between two actual people.

This is occasionally exasperating, as a software person who doesn’t want to have to take someone drinking to sell a single SaaS account, but it is occasionally quite charming. *Moving to Japan, particularly small-town Japan, was like visiting an old America that I had heard stories about but had never gotten the opportunity to experience.*

For example, when I first came to Japan, I had no computer. I also had no money, because the plane ticket and setting up my household ate all of my savings. In America, this isn’t a barrier to getting a computer, because Dell will do a quick FICO score on you and then happily extend you $2,000 of trade credit.

Dell Japan, on the other hand, set me up with two phone calls with actual human underwriters at two Japanese financial institutions. Both had me fill out rather extensive forms (100+ questions — seriously). The first said “In view of your length of tenure at your employer and length of residence at your apartment, we don’t feel that your situation is stable enough to extend you credit.” The second said “Look, umm, officially, I am supposed to just tell you that we decline your business and wish you luck. Unofficially, the bank doesn’t extend foreigners credit, as a matter of policy. You’ll find that is quite common in Japan. I know, it is lamentable, but I figure that you’d be able to save yourself some time if you knew.”

So I gave up for a while, but mentioned to a coworker later that week that I really wanted a computer to be able to Skype home. He said “Come with me” and we left, in the middle of the work day, to visit a bank. It is a smaller regional bank in Gifu. I’ll elide naming it to avoid the following story being personally identifiable, but suffice it to say it is a very conservative institution.

My coworker got a credit card application and asked me to fill it in. I did so, but told him “Look, two Tokyo banks, which are presumably about as cosmopolitan as Japanese financial institutions get, just shot me down. One of them explicitly did so because I’m a foreigner. The chance of this middle-of-nowhere bank accepting a credit application is zero.”

“Don’t worry, I know the manager. Hey, Taro!”

Taro and my coworker had gone to school together.

“Patrick here just started working with us. He wants to buy a computer to call his parents, diligent son that he is, and needs a credit card to do it. Here’s his application. Make sure it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle, OK?”

Some weeks passed, and I assumed that I had been denied. Then there was a knock on my door early one Saturday morning.

It was bank manager Taro and an older gentleman who introduced himself as the Vice President for Risk Management of the bank. He promptly took over the conversation.

“You have to understand that we’re not one of those banks. We’re not some magical pot of money. Every yen we have is a farmer depositing against a bad harvest or a retiree’s pension, carefully husbanded over a lifetime. That is a sacred trust. We cannot lose their money. The bank has to be appropriately careful about who we lend that money to. Taro here tells me your trustworthy, so that is good. Even trustworthy young men sometimes make poor decisions. I need to know you won’t, so before I give this credit card, I have three questions for you.”

“Will you ever use this credit card to gamble?”

“No, sir.”

“Good. Will you ever use this credit card to buy alcohol?”

“No, sir.”

“Good. Will you ever give this credit card to a woman who is not your wife?”

“No, sir.”

“Good. Think darn hard before giving it to your wife, too. OK, you pass muster. Sign here.”

That was the first of a dozen stories which you wouldn’t believe actually happened about that bank. Taro correctly intuited when I started dating a young lady, and when we broke up, solely based on on my spending habits. He considered that part and parcel with looking out for my financial interests.

Taro stopped me from doing a wire transfer back to Bank of America to pay my student loans during the Lehman shock because Wachovia had gone into FDIC receivership that morning. I told Taro that I didn’t have an account at Wachovia. Taro said that he was aware of that, but that I used Lloyds’ remittance service to send wires, and Lloyds’ intermediary bank in the US was Wachovia, which might or might not be safe to have money in at the moment. I asked Taro how in God’s name does a banker in Ogaki, Japan happen to know what intermediary banks Lloyds uses in North America off the top of his head, and Taro said, and I quote, “There exists a customer of the bank who habitually makes USD wire transfers using Lloyds and, accordingly, it is my business to know this.”

Taro called me on March 12th, the day after the Touhoku earthquake, to say that he was concerned about my balance in the circumstances (I had cleared out my account to pay a tax assessment minutes before the quake) and, if I needed it, to come down to the bank and, quote, we’ll take care of you and worry about the numbers some other time, endquote.

Taro eventually retired from his position, and as part of making his rounds, gave me a warm introduction to the new bank manager. He made it a point to invite me out for coffee, so that he’d be able to put a face to Taro’s copious handwritten notes about my character. Some years after that, a new manager transferred in. I popped by with a congratulations-on-the-new-job gift, mildly surprising the staff, but it felt appropriate.

When I moved to Tokyo, I went to the regional bank’s sole Tokyo office, which exists to serve their large megacorp customers. They were quite shocked that I had an account with the bank (“Mister! Citibank is down the street! If you use our ATMs you’ll get charged extra!”), and even more shocked when I told them that I run a multinational software company through it. “Wouldn’t you get better services with Citibank or Mitsubishi?” The thought of switching never crossed my mind. Indeed, I can’t imagine anything that would convince me to switch. They don’t make numbers big enough to compensate for how much I trust my bank.

Was I a particularly large account to the bank? Nope. It’s the same passbook savings account a 17 year old gets to deposit their first wages into. For 8+ of my ten years in Japan, my balance there was below $2,000.

The bank is one anecdote, but I could tell you about the hair stylist who drops me a handwritten postcard after every appointment, the restaurant that I went to weekly that tried to cater my wedding for free, the glasses shop which invited me to come back for a (free) frame re-bending and cup of coffee any time I was in the neighborhood, etc etc.

Japanese customers, in both B2C and B2B relationships, expect a level of personalized, attentive service which is qualitatively different than that in the United States. Anomalously good sales reps in the US are frequently operating at table stakes or below in Japan.

On the plus side, after you’ve actually won the business and demonstrated capability to serve customers to these standards, Japanese customers are very loyal.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936647)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:06 AM
Author: Aromatic smoky base

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936662)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:09 AM
Author: charcoal nighttime indirect expression



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936668)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 3:12 AM
Author: talented angry degenerate nowag

180 tyft

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41936670)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:07 AM
Author: stirring purple native genital piercing



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937001)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:09 AM
Author: Swollen tripping menage

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937006)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:33 AM
Author: Grizzly Gaping Boiling Water

You want your banker looking through all your transactions every month?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937058)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:48 AM
Author: Peach Fiercely-loyal Office Tattoo

yes. helps put the wife in her place

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937092)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 4:56 PM
Author: talented angry degenerate nowag



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41939117)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 10:12 AM
Author: umber marvelous old irish cottage location

Taro would shut my account down in about 2 hours tops

My crypto habit alone got me flagged for AML concerns by my mega US bank

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937162)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:36 PM
Author: Lascivious Maroon Lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938119)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 9:58 AM
Author: Anal patrolman school

If i had to live in japan i would have surely killed self by now. It is like something out of my worst, darkest nightmare.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41937133)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:48 PM
Author: Lake pea-brained boltzmann queen of the night

gbti

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938173)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 4:09 PM
Author: Obsidian hospital place of business



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938870)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:36 PM
Author: Anal patrolman school

well shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41940312)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 1:37 PM
Author: Lascivious Maroon Lay

That is unbelievably 180. It’s actually how the USA used to be as well until (((you know who))) took over.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41938128)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 5:02 PM
Author: flatulent dog poop area



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41939145)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 5:41 PM
Author: Exciting Stubborn Resort



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41939416)



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Date: February 13th, 2021 8:25 PM
Author: exhilarant flickering heaven

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4521346&mc=17&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4764781&forum_id=2#41940271)