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Book rec for boys ?

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? look...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderso...
histrionic hairless parlor
  12/18/25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712? Reasonable price, ...
domesticated depressive home
  12/18/25
...
bat shit crazy very tactful property trump supporter
  12/18/25
"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys...
submissive love of her life
  12/19/25
this is now forever in my search history I want you dead,...
submissive love of her life
  12/19/25
mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel
odious harsh chad
  12/18/25
A few offhand: -On the Shortness of Life - Seneca -Sta...
embarrassed to the bone church halford
  12/18/25
https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&a...
submissive love of her life
  12/19/25
or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of...
apoplectic locale incel
  12/19/25
The Illustrated Man Odyssey The International Jew 1984 M...
Jet-lagged stubborn office
  12/18/25
Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters
Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank
  12/18/25
i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer readin...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Ce...
Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank
  12/18/25
they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
180
Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank
  12/18/25
The eyes and the impossible sourdough heart of samurai...
Soggy rusted corner goyim
  12/18/25
rocket boys is 180
Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate
  12/18/25
Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo
Soggy rusted corner goyim
  12/18/25
...
Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate
  12/19/25
weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party...
apoplectic locale incel
  12/22/25
CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" thos...
nighttime gunner
  12/18/25
he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that&rsq...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)
Contagious Step-uncle's House Blood Rage
  12/18/25
ty for the recs, this is helpful i just asked him what bo...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has rea...
electric cobalt brunch sweet tailpipe
  12/18/25
seconding count of monte cristo three musketeers is also ...
appetizing flickering whorehouse pistol
  12/18/25
JackTales 🤡😳
Disgusting Kitty Cat
  12/18/25
those are for reading out loud , clown
Soggy rusted corner goyim
  12/18/25
The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton https://www.amazon...
saffron thriller menage
  12/18/25
Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz) We Were Soldiers Once… And...
autistic fanboi sound barrier
  12/18/25
are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by ...
shaky dragon
  12/18/25
I’m not even sure which author you’re talking ab...
autistic fanboi sound barrier
  12/18/25
lol
shaky dragon
  12/18/25
he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers &qu...
jet hospital
  12/21/25
Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000
Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate
  12/18/25
No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a bet...
autistic fanboi sound barrier
  12/18/25
James Bond novels Conan (only read the flemming and howard...
Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant
  12/18/25
The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.
embarrassed to the bone church halford
  12/18/25
Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 ...
Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant
  12/18/25
Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new boo...
embarrassed to the bone church halford
  12/18/25
1. Goldfinger 2. Moonraker 3. Casino Royale 4. From Russ...
Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant
  12/19/25
tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I th...
embarrassed to the bone church halford
  12/21/25
cr
Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate
  12/18/25
Anabasis
Twisted crimson dysfunction hall
  12/18/25
...
shaky dragon
  12/18/25
Flowers for Algernon
twinkling bossy nowag
  12/18/25
The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant Man's Sear...
shaky dragon
  12/18/25
a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it...
pearly place of business
  12/18/25
Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in ...
coiffed snowy rigpig space
  12/18/25
Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?) Zen and the Art of Motorc...
tripping feces useless brakes
  12/18/25
> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance lol
shaky dragon
  12/18/25
read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class i...
Provocative generalized bond
  12/18/25
zorba the greek
Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate
  12/18/25
...
autistic fanboi sound barrier
  12/18/25
Several good recs already upthread. Some others: The Thin...
nighttime gunner
  12/18/25
Cr. list I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit ov...
autistic fanboi sound barrier
  12/18/25
The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorit...
swashbuckling olive pocket flask
  12/18/25
...
nighttime gunner
  12/18/25
agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise cau...
jet hospital
  12/22/25
Watership Down A Day No Pigs Would Die 2nd Where the R...
splenetic poppy nursing home
  12/18/25
...
Aquamarine soul-stirring messiness weed whacker
  12/18/25
Starship Troopers Enders Game Johnny Tremain Childhoods E...
Navy Theater Half-breed
  12/18/25
A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES
submissive love of her life
  12/19/25
Neon Bible better rec for younger kid
Twisted crimson dysfunction hall
  12/19/25
abridged edgar allen poe short stories
fighting peach ticket booth internal respiration
  12/19/25
https://kommandostore.com/products/republic-of-south-africa-...
Concupiscible Den
  12/26/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:03 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? looking for something that would be motivating / tools for life genre

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519424)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:15 PM
Author: histrionic hairless parlor

I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderson (Broken Sword, Three Hearts and Three Lions) Fritz Lieber (Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser) etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519444)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:19 PM
Author: domesticated depressive home

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712?

Reasonable price, free shipping.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519452)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: bat shit crazy very tactful property trump supporter



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:35 AM
Author: submissive love of her life

"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys and crayons, a bubble bath, and lots of love."

-- School Library Journal

"Will undoubtedly be scooped up by families seeking queer representation in board books."

-- Kirkus

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521596)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 2:42 AM
Author: submissive love of her life

this is now forever in my search history

I want you dead, Malk Poo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521719)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: odious harsh chad

mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519459)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:22 PM
Author: embarrassed to the bone church halford

A few offhand:

-On the Shortness of Life - Seneca

-Starship Troopers (the book is much better and more serious than the movie)

-Bonfire of the Vanities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519460)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:10 AM
Author: submissive love of her life

https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&forum_id=2#35633765

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521571)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 9:32 AM
Author: apoplectic locale incel

or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of his vanities

toughens him up a bit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49522050)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:23 PM
Author: Jet-lagged stubborn office

The Illustrated Man

Odyssey

The International Jew

1984

Meditations

The Myth of Sisyphus

Hamlet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519465)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:27 PM
Author: Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank

Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519476)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer reading assignments



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519493)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:34 PM
Author: Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank

Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Celestine Prophecy, Lord of the Flies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519513)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your other recs, ty!

he just finished peak, so hatchet is a good one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519523)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:45 PM
Author: Aqua Pea-brained Locus Tank

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519559)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:01 PM
Author: Soggy rusted corner goyim

The eyes and the impossible

sourdough

heart of samurai

artemis

rocket boys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519953)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:13 PM
Author: Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate

rocket boys is 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520282)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:18 PM
Author: Soggy rusted corner goyim

Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521280)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:34 AM
Author: Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521595)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 10:54 AM
Author: apoplectic locale incel

weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party scene at my rural West Virginia high school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49530601)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:54 PM
Author: nighttime gunner

CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" those by HS, especially later in HS?

My 7 year old just read--and really enjoyed--Hatchet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519755)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:00 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that’s more his reading level

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519767)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:28 PM
Author: Contagious Step-uncle's House Blood Rage

The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519483)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

ty for the recs, this is helpful

i just asked him what book he’s reading (we’re on a flight) and its war and peace

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519489)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:24 PM
Author: electric cobalt brunch sweet tailpipe

Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has read tons of other Russian lit and has a solid grounding in religion and philosophy.

Count of Monte Cristo is a goat novel that is also accessible and really exciting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519679)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:29 PM
Author: appetizing flickering whorehouse pistol

seconding count of monte cristo

three musketeers is also great and vastly superior to any adaptation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519686)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: Disgusting Kitty Cat

JackTales 🤡😳

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519490)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:02 PM
Author: Soggy rusted corner goyim

those are for reading out loud , clown



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519956)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: saffron thriller menage

The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton

https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Pink-Hair-Perez-Hilton/dp/0451234200

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519492)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:32 PM
Author: autistic fanboi sound barrier

Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz)

We Were Soldiers Once… And Young (Moore & Galloway)

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage (Lansing)

The Way of Men (Donovan)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519502)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:35 PM
Author: shaky dragon

are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by a homo?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519701)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:45 PM
Author: autistic fanboi sound barrier

I’m not even sure which author you’re talking about, though I’m 99.99% sure that it’s not Moore or Galloway

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519724)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:41 PM
Author: shaky dragon

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519873)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:48 PM
Author: jet hospital

he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers "androphile," a term he uses to describe romance and sex between masculine men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Donovan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49528627)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:46 PM
Author: Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519898)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:28 PM
Author: autistic fanboi sound barrier

No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a better idea of what it means to be a man and to experience the thrill, the triumph, of surviving impossible odds. Leadership, loyalty, discipline. And then they get home and are like, fuck it, sign me up for WWI’s trenches

My middle son needed a bit of coaching on perseverance, so we read this together and then did a HARD AS FUCK mountain bike camping trip in western NC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520739)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:33 PM
Author: Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant

James Bond novels

Conan (only read the flemming and howard originals though)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519505)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:39 PM
Author: embarrassed to the bone church halford

The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519535)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:51 PM
Author: Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant

Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 or so) in a summer. all were 180. I tried reading the non-flemming but its not the same. They don't write novels like that anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519587)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:50 PM
Author: embarrassed to the bone church halford

Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new books to read.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519744)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 10:06 AM
Author: Glittery Angry School Cafeteria Immigrant

1. Goldfinger

2. Moonraker

3. Casino Royale

4. From Russia With Love

5. On Her Majesty's Secret Service

the order changes based on mood but these five are in a tier above.

the rest are all solid. for example, Diamonds are Forever is my least favorite and that is still leagues better than any modern espionage novel.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49522101)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:44 PM
Author: embarrassed to the bone church halford

tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I think.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49528612)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:46 PM
Author: Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519729)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: Twisted crimson dysfunction hall

Anabasis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519542)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: shaky dragon



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519572)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:43 PM
Author: twinkling bossy nowag

Flowers for Algernon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519548)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: shaky dragon

The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant

Man's Search for Meaning - Viktor Frankl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519568)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:55 PM
Author: pearly place of business

a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it. great series for boys who like knights, politics, and violence.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519602)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:30 PM
Author: coiffed snowy rigpig space

Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in the series

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519689)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:36 PM
Author: tripping feces useless brakes

Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?)

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Dune

anything recent by Lawrence Millman

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519705)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:37 PM
Author: shaky dragon

> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519706)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:01 PM
Author: Provocative generalized bond

read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class in hs. book was so so but class was 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519770)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:38 PM
Author: Mind-boggling Mischievous Library Roommate

zorba the greek



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519710)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:49 PM
Author: autistic fanboi sound barrier



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:53 PM
Author: nighttime gunner

Several good recs already upthread. Some others:

The Things They Carried

Mark Twain--starting with Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn

1984

The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (and throw in The Hobbit)

Infinite Jest

Moby Dick

Blood Meridian

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49519751)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:30 PM
Author: autistic fanboi sound barrier

Cr. list

I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit overexposed to the hopelessly feminized librarian space for a time and was looked down upon as kind of trite. But it’s 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520745)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:55 PM
Author: swashbuckling olive pocket flask

The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorite. You shouldn't look down on librarian recs. This is all they do

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520815)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:12 PM
Author: nighttime gunner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521254)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 11:44 AM
Author: jet hospital

agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise caution with the second and third sentences just given that the values may not be stoic masculine warrior

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49530736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:09 PM
Author: splenetic poppy nursing home

Watership Down

A Day No Pigs Would Die

2nd Where the Red Fern Grows

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:33 PM
Author: Aquamarine soul-stirring messiness weed whacker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520756)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:40 PM
Author: Navy Theater Half-breed

Starship Troopers

Enders Game

Johnny Tremain

Childhoods End

Rama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49520778)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:16 AM
Author: submissive love of her life

A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521578)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 2:11 AM
Author: Twisted crimson dysfunction hall

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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521698)



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Date: December 19th, 2025 2:23 AM
Author: fighting peach ticket booth internal respiration

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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49521706)



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Date: December 26th, 2025 12:37 AM
Author: Concupiscible Den

https://kommandostore.com/products/republic-of-south-africa-unconventional-warfare-complete-book-set?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2#49540099)