Financial advisor trying to get me to put my 401k balance into annuity
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: August 6th, 2024 12:30 AM Author: overrated plaza
This is a reason to terminate this guy immediately, right?
I had no idea what an indexed annuity was before this, but after reading a bit about them I don’t see why the fuck anyone would take several hundred grand out of their 401k to buy this bullshit.
I was gonna ask him to explain why he is claiming this is a good move, but rather than that I think the cr us to immediately fire him and move on to someone who isn’t a salesperson looking for a commission.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47932937) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 12:35 AM Author: overrated plaza
It seems that the annuity is tied to an index, such as the s&p, only there’s a cap on potential gains, for instance 7%. So if the index is up 32% you only get 7%, but if there’s a loss you just get 0%
I might be oversimplifying or even misunderstanding how this works, but no thanks.
And why would I put tax-advantaged retirement dollars into this?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47932944) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 9:20 AM Author: hairraiser tattoo
That's exactly who this is targeted at obvs
There is probably a much better and cheaper way to obtain a low risk low upside financial strategy (which is what this is) but many people are very drawn to the idea of "can't lose money" . Especially old people.
Its hard to argue against these things because there is a very smooth sales pitch. So what I try to tell people is that theyre not pushing this on you because they're making •less• money this way. That's probably the simplest way to state it without getting bogged down in details.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933466) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:16 AM Author: cocky adventurous liquid oxygen
The market exists.
This product exists for a company to make money off of the difference between market returns and the stupidity of individual investors.
Might work out in your advantage given specific start and end dates. Will work out in their favor over the long run.
tldr; grab his kippah and run.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933385) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:28 AM Author: overrated plaza
this has been correct. i know enough about investing to just put everything into index funds/etfs and if i keep doing that i'll probably retire with around $10 million.
this guy didn't really have anything to tell me except that i've fully funded college for my kids (i wasn't paying attention to that and didn't notice that i can pretty much stop now).
i guess all he has to offer is sales products where he will make a commission. all i have to do is roll one of my 401(k) balances over in its entirety!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933396) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 8:22 AM Author: Duck-like Base
"Indexed
Indexed annuities fall somewhere in between the fixed and variable choices when it comes to risk and potential reward. The buyer receives a guaranteed minimum payout but a portion of the return is tied to the performance of a market index, such as the S&P 500.
Despite their potential for greater earnings, variable and indexed annuities are often criticized for their relative complexity and the fees that are charged for them. For example, there can be steep surrender charges if the buyer chooses to withdraw their money within the first few years of the contract."
I do not understand why anyone would ever get a non-fixed annuity. If you're taking on market risk, then just sell off shares on your own.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933389) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:30 AM Author: overrated plaza
this is what i've always done. i figured there must be something i was missing so i paid this guy a couple grand to look at my situation, and this is the result.
i thought there might be ONE WEIRD TRICK that i was missing with respect to investing/tax shit.
money well spent, in a sense, because i know i'm doing everything right, including not buying an annuity.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933398) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:33 AM Author: overrated plaza
it was pretty 180 how this guy introduced it. it was like this "thing" and you retire and it's in the s&p and you retire with $15 million, kinda like!
the whole time he was talking to me i was like what is this? can you explain? then i said i'd just look at the application when it got sent.
then it arrived this morning and i looked at it. it isn't even a fixed index annuity, it's a variable annuity. based on the very little i know, those are an outright scam.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933400) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 9:23 AM Author: Concupiscible kink-friendly range
This sounds like a great idea. For the guy selling it, who will get a huge up front fee if you buy this shit.
And LOL you’d owe taxes and penalties for cashing out your 401k. No fucking way is this a good idea.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933473) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 10:02 AM Author: unhinged set old irish cottage
Is this a buffered annuity? If so, they only eat the first 10-20% or so of indexed losses. If the S&P goes down to like 2500. You’re still eating most of it.
It caps your upside also (as you’re aware). These could potentially be a decent idea for someone in their late 50s who wants some growth while limiting downside, but even then, it’s a weak product IMO.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933647) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 10:30 AM Author: overrated plaza
i said this above, but i pretty much follow the bogleheads method - index and forget about it, get rich.
i figured it was possible that since i'm pretty high income (HHI is around $550k), there might be some stuff i was missing. some kind of tax horseshit that i don't know about.
so this was money well spent ($2k IIRC) to confirm that i am not missing anything and i can just keep doing everything myself.
had a couple meetings with this dood, and basically it was a long, involved sales pitch for an annuity masquerading as a "financial plan." since i already know all the basics, he really had nothing to tell me.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47933765) |
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Date: August 8th, 2024 12:34 AM Author: Very tactful cerebral locale roommate
It wouldn't be a horrible idea to have some Roth money, but 75% is probably high for someone earning $550k. Remember that when you contribute to a traditional account, 100% of the deduction offsets income taxed at your highest marginal rate (37% federal plus state). But when you withdraw from a traditional account, the first $22k annually is taxed at 10%, the next $68k is taxed at 12%, etc. If you don't expect to be withdrawing enough to be putting yourself into the higher tax brackets, it is hard to imagine a scenario where someone earning under $100k is getting taxed at 37% or higher. Granted, eventually RMD's will probably push you into the higher tax brackets anyway, but even then the first $360k or so you withdraw per year will be taxed at a lower rate. And you could probably mostly (or entirely) avoid this by slowly converting your traditional accounts to Roth accounts after retirement (convert just enough each year to avoid bumping yourself into a higher tax bracket).
TLDR: I have a hard time imagining a scenario where you will save more money contributing to a Roth rather than a traditional account right now. You should still max out the backdoor Roth every year because there is no reason not to, and maybe throw a little bit into a Roth 401k as well. But I'd put the vast majority (and probably all) of your savings into a traditional account.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47941649) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 12:46 PM Author: overrated plaza
i feel like one of those background characters in the movie Boiler Room who got suckered into putting all their savings into some penny stock that went bust.
or was that wolf of wall street? or both maybe.
my very disappointed wife finding out about this and saying "first you cheat on me with trannies and catch HIV and now this?"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47934489) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 3:50 PM Author: Arousing masturbator
As many people have said, these people are all scammers and at best add no value and at worst can really fuck you over. Maybe if you are worth over $10 million there is some useful tax optimization they can do but that's it.
Same thing with the proliferation of all these various insurance schemes. You don't need any of it.
Like travel agents, it's a job that made some sense 40 years ago when it was hard to find information. It's hard to believe they still exist.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47935366) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 4:17 PM Author: heady pearly step-uncle's house
The prospectuses (prospecti?) for these things are two inches thick in small type, front and back printed.
The purpose for this is not to protect YOU.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47935481) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 4:50 PM Author: overrated plaza
basically annuities are on a list of products/items/services designed to fuck old people
another that comes to mind is AOL autopay. pretty sure AOL was kept afloat for years because boomers and silent generation faggots forgot to cancel their AOL subs after AOL quit being an isp.
this all reminds me of that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47935627) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 8:08 PM Author: fuchsia excitant menage
in college I was a friend with a few financial advisors and they would always talk about the commissions on annuities. it's the financial advisor equivalent of your car salesman telling you what a great deal an extended warranty is. a good rule of thumb is no one has to hard sell you something that's worthwhile.
with financial advisors you've got elites that may benefit from paying huge fees to invest in a hedge fund and you have everyone else. you'd be far better off just DCAing into a vanguard target retirement fund than doing a anything some faggot at fidelity advises you to do.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47936402) |
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:26 PM Author: overrated plaza
target date funds are kind of shit. i had a lot in those but moved my funds and my wife's out of them. most of our money is in s&p/large cap (closest approximation to s&p), and vanguard total stock market. i'm getting out of international stocks entirely and going to put some of the money in ETFs like QQQ and the vanguard growth.
as documented on the boart, i also put around $40k in nvda stock just for fun hehe. i don't really fuck around with stocks but whatever.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47936476)
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Date: August 6th, 2024 8:15 PM Author: Vivacious goyim
FAs are huge scams
put in the work to understand it yourself
no other way
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47936427) |
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Date: August 7th, 2024 11:06 AM Author: overrated plaza
i'm left with the conclusion that i don't need an advisor of any kind. i am fairly financially literate - i plow money into ETFs, have some money in crypto, and do backdoor roths for wife and me every year.
based on what i saw from this guy, i don't need anything.
i've heard up to 8% commissions on these things, so he may be looking at closer to 60 grand. pretty nice chunk of change.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47938259) |
Date: August 6th, 2024 8:48 PM Author: overrated plaza
oh, i didnt mention. this guy had some bullshit bar graph and was like "if you just keep doing what you're doing, here's where your money will be at age 58" and it showed a peak of like 10-11m.
but if you do this [he used a term that definitely was not the word annuity], it'll do this, and it showed $15 mil.
i'd imagine he gets many suckers who fall for that. only the difference he's showing them is between 1.5-2m if they leave everything in the market, and 3.5-4 if they purchase this scam product. sad stuff.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47936562) |
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Date: August 8th, 2024 8:39 AM Author: overrated plaza
i'm not arguing in favor of an annuity, i'm trying to see if anyone can even come close to making a coherent argument for putting almost a million dollars in one of these scams.
i've been busy (see my bristol thread) all week and haven't responded to the advisor. rather than ghost him totally, i'm thinking of asking him to send me a full prospectus because i need to analyze all of the fees, guaranteed returns, etc. and understand what this is "invested" in before i consider it, because $700k parked in the market earning 8% a year will be around $3 million in 20 years. i just need to understand why he's asking me to pay $3 million (realistically more, given that annualized returns should be higher than 8%) for this product.
i'm interested to see what he says. then i will fire him.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47942185) |
Date: August 7th, 2024 7:27 PM Author: overrated plaza
i poasted this thread late at night and it got no attention and bumped it yesterday morning and here we are.
just an FYI, friends. timing is everything.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47940390) |
Date: August 9th, 2024 5:50 PM Author: overrated plaza
i decided to waste some of this guy's time, then i will tell him lolno sorry no commission for u, ur fired.
Dear Plannerfaggot,
It was a very hectic week so I couldn’t get back to you right away. I didn’t realize that you were referring to an annuity. I am very hesitant to have anything to do with an annuity, which I generally understand are incredibly complex to the point of obfuscation and designed so that the insurance company gets the better end of the deal, not to mention coming with very high fees. I also understand them to be designed for people focused on capital preservation rather than growth (and I am interested solely in growth at this stage).
The $675k noted on the application, if left in the stock market, would be worth $3.1 million in 20 years assuming a return of 8%, and $4.5 million assuming a return of 10%. Before I sign anything or consider pulling such a large sum out of the stock market and buying a product with it, I’ll need to be roughly 100% certain that I am going to come out ahead by purchasing the product.
Do you have a prospectus or similar document describing all of the terms of the annuity? At a minimum, I will want to know (1) what the fees are, (2) what the guaranteed returns are, (3) assuming there are no guarantees (which I assume is the case), are there caps on the yearly returns?, (4) is there a death benefit? (5) what is the payment structure – after I put in $675k, when do I begin receiving income? I’ll have to compare that to what I’d be looking at if the money remained in index funds and make the call. I am very skeptical but want to keep an open mind.
Thanks and have a great weekend!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47948427)
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Date: August 9th, 2024 7:37 PM Author: overrated plaza
lmao, he thought he had a sucker on the hook ALL WEEK. he was probably picking out a new car and shit.
then friday evening BAM he gets preliminarily dingfagged. he's probably going to spend his weekend stressing about how to save this.
i mean, listen - if i misunderstood something, then i am SURE that after i read all of the literature and consult with the boart, as well as another financial professional and maybe some youtube videos, i will admit that i was wrong and purchase this fantastic financial product with the $700k in the prior 401(k) plan.
dudes from my high school bought insurance products that outperformed the S&P all the time, nbd.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47948753)
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Date: August 9th, 2024 8:37 PM Author: overrated plaza
i just remembered this guy and i were laughing about people who buy actively managed mutual funds with high fees bc 97% of them underperform the market over time.
i wonder how he will react to my question about the annuity's fees. ljl.
and actually, i just remembered that the first time i met with this dood a few months ago, i told him that it felt kind of good that given that we have around $2m in the market now, i could basically leave my career and we'd retire in 20 years with $8m or so. his response was "yup, sure will, as long as you keep doing what you're doing!" i chalked this up to a simple misstatement or misunderstanding on his part of the magic of compound returns, but now i believe he actually doesn't know shit.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47948962) |
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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47949423) |
Date: August 10th, 2024 2:13 PM Author: overrated plaza
i haven't even read this fully yet, but at first glance he's trying to tell me i'm just kind of putting my money into the s&p but i guess this is somehow better. This is a LONG email, not sure i'm gonna actually read this ljl.
Thank you for the email – hopefully the weekend will be relaxing!
Traditionally, annuities have been designed for more conservative individuals and those who are near retirement. They also can include income features and have fees within the strategy. I do want to make it clear that this strategy would not involve an income component and is designed for growth. The individuals that I have recommended this tiered participation strategy for are younger and are strictly looking for asset appreciation. Annuities are not all the same anymore, and have changed to provide advantages to those looking for growth and not looking to retire within a few years.
Flexguard:
There are different strategies within the Flexguard – this is the name of the annuity as you will see in the application. There are strategies with more downside protection (protection from market loss) and upside caps (limits on the upside). There are also subaccounts (mutual funds) offered within the Flexguard. I do not recommend any of these options as the subaccounts have an expense ratio fee and the caps limit growth on the upside. This would not make sense for your situation. The only strategy within the Flexguard that would make sense is the tiered participation (what has been discussed). This is only because you would not be limited on the growth at all and you would be provided with excess returns tied to the S & P index.
Catch:
Here is the catch to Flexguard – there is a holding period. So, if you feel there is a chance that within the 6 years you would want to liquidate the account for any reason then you would be assessed a surrender charge. Since this is a qualified retirement account, you would also be assessed a penalty from the IRS and would owe taxes on the distributions. Technically, you can access 10% of the account value penalty free each year. Assuming you are maintaining a long term position on the account, the holding period would not be an issue. Because of this, it usually becomes a moot point. However, if you do want the flexibility to pull funds out of the account and take income within the 6 years, I do not recommend this strategy.
Fees:
Since we are selecting the index based option within the Flexguard – there are no fees. No expenses ratio fees, no admin charges or mortality expenses. You will see in the application that there can be fees IF you select a subaccount (mutual fund) which I strongly advise against as there is no value in my opinion. Your account would simply mirror the S & P index similar to a standard index ETF/mutual fund however there are no expense fees taken out of the account balance. As mentioned above you would be assessed a surrender charge penalty if you took income on the account (above 10% of the account) within the 6 year period as noted in the application. Outside of this, there is no limit on the upside and nothing being deducted from the account balance. Again, from an ideal perspective, you do not touch any of your qualified retirement accounts (401K, IRA, etc.) as it wouldn’t be wise and I feel we are probably on the same page with you wanting to keep the accounts invested until retirement.
Advantage:
My rationale for the Flexguard tiered participation is the growth potential of the overall market over the next 6 year period (and long term in general). The only scenario where the tiered participation will not outperform a standard index fund is if over the next 6 years the S & P index has only provided a 15% return or has been negative over the period. In this situation, you would have performed exactly as being in a standard index fund. If there is a return over the 6 years of above 15% in the S & P index, then the strategy will outperform a standard S & P index fund, at 125% of the excess return after the first 15%. I have mentioned before I am a believer in the S & P and feel that there is a fair to strong likelihood that the S & P will outpace a 15% return over a 6 year period in which your account will perform better. Using the example of the previous 6 years in the S & P from our call on Monday – this account would have outpaced a standard index portfolio and provide a higher portfolio value (and is the case with clients who are currently in the tiered participation Flexguard compared to if they were invested outside of it) – however of course I do not want to guarantee any future returns.
Guarantees:
There are no guaranteed returns with the tiered participation – generally speaking if there are any guarantees involved with an annuity that is when there are fees involved. I don’t think a guaranteed annuity or any protection based annuity makes any sense at all given your age and time horizon. The only reason I think the tiered participation makes sense is for the additional upside potential. The current rates of the 125% on excess returns I believe is competitive and usually this rate is not this high, which is why the strategy has been advantageous for other clients of late as well. This is what I illustrated through E-money on Monday in the difference in overall portfolio value using the Flexguard tiered participation. The death benefit for the account would simply be the account value on the date of death – similar to how it would be in a 401K or any other IRA.
After 6 Years:
After the holding period of 6 years is up, you have can roll over the account to a another IRA portfolio (non-annuity), renew into another tiered participation strategy (if provided rates are competitive then) or roll the account into your 401K. You will have complete flexibility and again this doesn’t turn into any income stream or lock up funds or annuitize. In other words, the account is not treated differently from any other account such as your 401K or the like.
I understand you wanting the clarification as annuities for someone of your age typically would warrant questions. I want this to make complete sense to you as it does to me. Before making any moves, I want to make sure we are on the same page and is crystal clear. I am happy to setup another call to go through this deeper.
Have a great weekend!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47950965)
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Date: August 10th, 2024 10:06 PM Author: overrated plaza
Gee, he made a mistake because it says on the fourth page of the prospectus that the annual fee is between 1.2 and 1.3%
I should let him know so he doesn’t accidentally tell anyone else there’s no fee. Do you think he’ll thank me for the catch, brothers?
Edit: this guy really made a boo boo. If you select the “equities” option for the “investment” in this annuity, there’s another 1% fee.
Is 2.2% fee for a fund that tracks the s&p (but caps your returns) a good deal?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47952090) |
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Date: August 11th, 2024 8:07 AM Author: overrated plaza
it's really scary how they get people like this.
i'm so gullible that i actually didn't know financial planners were a straight up scam. this whole thing was a long, disguised sales pitch for this annuity. and i bet he has a bunch of other "financial products" he was going to try to sell me too.
i bet he gets the odd person who is skeptical of this annuity scam and raise a question like i did, then rely on his lie to go ahead and buy it. this shit is so fucking convoluted that I've waded through about three separate prospectuses and still don't fully understand it.
the government should ban these things (and many others), but of course people in this industry have tons of lobbyists in DC so that'll never happen
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47952846) |
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Date: August 11th, 2024 9:19 AM Author: overrated plaza
i think that's what he means, and maybe you could say that he is technically correct but i'd argue not. fees are fees. and of course we would all agree that his representation is made in bad faith.
when i fully run this shit to ground i'm gonna confront him with the yearly fees, and he will probably respond "oh that's just included, i meant there aren't OTHER fees. and there are fees with everything, plus like i told you, you'll beat the market so this 2% just comes out of that! it's a net positive!"
should i then ask him about his commission?
also, i don't normally do this, but this guy is scamming people. is there a regulatory body of some kind i can report him to? or is "CFP" just totally made up and he isn't actually licensed?
he showed me some bar chart that had me staying the course with what i'm doing and retiring with like $12m, or doing THIS and retiring with $15m. i'd love to see the assumptions for the graphs. in the former it's probably assuming a yearly return of 6% due to a bear market and net of fees of 1% (which i don't pay because i'm all-in with ETFs and vanguard funds), then the second graph assumes 19% yearly returns for the s&p, and is "before fees."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47952980) |
Date: August 11th, 2024 4:47 PM Author: overrated plaza
I have reviewed a number of documents, including several prospectuses. As I suspected, this product is not for me. I am interested in continued growth, not capital preservation. There are a couple of things that jump out at me from reading the prospectus(es) that describe the terms of the annuity. First, there does appear to be a fee. There is a minimum fee of 1.2% per year and a maximum fee of 1.3% noted in the Initial Summary Prospectus dated July 1, 2024. While there are other “portfolio” fees in addition, I assume based on what you told me that these would not apply unless a subaccount were purchased. But the 1.2-1.3% is enough to be a dealbreaker.
Additionally, the S-3 prospectus states as follows: “Index returns for Indexes offered under the Annuity are based on the closing share price (ie, price return) of each respective Index and do not include dividends and other distributions declared by the Index.” I believe the current dividend yield of the S&P is close to 2%, so that is an additional amount by which this product would underperform the market. That, too, even if there were no annual expenses, would be a dealbreaker.
The 5% buffer is not attractive to me, as this money is going to be growing for decades; I have no issue participating fully in all market gains and losses. The prospect of receiving 125% of the index return is remote at best, given that dividends are not included when calculating the applicable index return. The market would have to be doing better than 15% for it to kick in. I also don’t know whether the 1.2% (or 1.3%?) is also deducted before determining whether the 125% credit applies, but I suspect that it is (given that the product was designed by an insurance company).
I am sure there is a commission that would result from my buying this product, which naturally would be coming out of my end. I am not sure what that would be, but the two things noted above are enough for me to say no, so it really doesn’t matter.
And then I picture [xxxx] and the kids talking to you (or somebody) after I’ve prematurely died and them finding out what happened to my ~$700k 401(k) funds that should have remained invested in equities and growing. And it makes me angry. I’m sure there is a use case for this product, but it surely isn’t a smart investment for a mid-40s breadwinner and father of two who wants to make sure his family is provided for in the event something should happen.
Given what I indicated to you about my financial objectives, there is no scenario where it was reasonable for you to try to sell me this product. I thank you for your time and it was nice meeting you, but I am going to terminate this relationship effective immediately. Take care.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47954237)
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Date: August 11th, 2024 5:51 PM Author: overrated plaza
so this was a long con.
i forget how i got linked up with him, but i am sure it was some kind of sales call. so from the jump it was stupid as fuck for me to reply to him.
but i decided to let him look at our shit because as i've said, i figured there must be something i'm missing re money management. i paid him like $3k to do an "analysis" of our net worth.
he ran numbers, and we had a meeting, and the entire thing was more or less focused on this annuity (which he did not call an annuity, he tried to talk around what it was).
i'm annoyed i got scammed out of some money but it could have been WAY worse. it actually pisses me off that he's out there doing this to people. most people don't know enough to know that this is a scam.
edit: after you replied, i edited to add the above paragraph about my wife and kids talking to someone after i died (you know, of AIDS or whatever) and finding out that that 401(k) account is tied all the fuck up and barely grew. that makes me want to go beat the fucking shit out of this faggot. i doubt it'll make him feel guilty bc he looks like some travelshrew early 30s queer and can't relate. but it should definitely make him feel guilty. he probably looked at my income and figured "well this guy's gonna have a lot of money either way, so what the hell, this ain't so bad." fucking scumbag.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47954420) |
Date: August 11th, 2024 8:54 PM Author: overrated plaza
oh, this slipped my mind but when i spoke to this shit for brains on monday, he told me i couldn't do a backdoor Roth this year (because i'd be rolling over a 401k into this vehicle).
there are like 19 different ways how this idiot tried to fuck me, LJL.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47954817) |
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Date: August 12th, 2024 12:15 AM Author: overrated plaza
I read several prospectuses (there’s too much bullshit for there to be just one prospectus). Turns out, as you’d expect, there are fees north of 1%, and when determining the “index return” for the s&p, dividends aren’t included, it’s just share price.
It’s amazing people like this are permitted to operate.
This guy is a typical 105 iq-mo. He tried to get me for 700k. Of course I’m going to do due diligence. Better to shoot for sub-100k and hope the person will just trust you because you’re a CFP(tm)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47955268) |
Date: August 13th, 2024 9:51 AM Author: overrated plaza
here is his reply. i cannot decide if he is doubling down on his scam, or whether he actually believes the shit he's saying because he's so uninformed about the "investment product" he is pushing. reminds me of the deniro character in Casino firing the hick floor manager (nephew of a local pol) who was allowing machines to keep hitting: he's either in on a scam or he's incompetent. either way, he's fired.
he's actually telling me that (1) there are no fees and (2) the money would "not be taken out of the market" because it's in an "index following the s&p." this fucking guy cannot be dumb enough to believe this. i may file complaints against him with whatever body regulates "CFPs" as well as my state insurance and securities regulators. i'm sure nothing will happen, but this idiot is a menace.
Thank you for your email.
I do apologize that you feel this way and please know that I was 100% recommending with my best intentions for you at hand. My job is not to make people agree with me and I hope that this is not the impression I have provided – I do not want clients to make any decisions they don’t understand or clearly agree with. I do respect your decision and am not looking to change your mind at this point - just wanted to address my reasoning for recommending the strategy.
Annuities do have a polarizing connotation to them, but please know that this strategy was an accumulation annuity first and foremost and not a preservation strategy. I was not recommending this based on the buffer in mind – and simply the growth prospects. As mentioned before, the rates offered on these do fluctuate and usually are not as attractive but year-to-date have been more appealing. Please note any fee mentioned (mortality, portfolio, etc.) in the prospectus or application is only assessed if you are investing the money in a variable sub-account, which is not what was being recommended – and I do not recommend this. There would be no competitive advantage to utilizing this strategy if it came with fees – which is why I only mentioned the tiered participation from the start. The index (S & P) was being recommended and does not have any assessed fee. Nothing would be deducted from the account unless you prematurely took money out of the account prior to the 6 years being up.
The money would not be pulled out of the market as you would be invested in the index following the S & P – so your participation would not change. The Flexguard itself would not take money away from the markets. The 401K to an IRA rollover does not remove you from the market. Also, from the death benefit standpoint it would be treated similar as any other IRA or 401K. I am unsure as to what you mean by the premature passing - this money would be provided to them (along with any interest built in the account) and again would have been invested from day one of opening the account – so there is no losing out on any appreciation.
I do believe you and xxxx are both in a good position and had mentioned before that had you not pursued an IRA strategy (and simply rolled over the 401K’s to your current 401K) you would be okay based on the desired goals. As noted in the E-money forecasting however, there was a considerable impact on utilizing the tiered participation growth rate based on the last 6 years in the S & P compared to the standard index. I felt it was fair to mention this strategy to you so that you were aware of the growth potential. As stated before, we start with a planning relationship first to better understand the client and their qualitative information before making recommendations. I would have preferred to present the option in person but completely understand with your work trip and not wanting to reschedule.
I do understand that annuities themselves can have a negative connotation and candidly believe that some of them are not very useful. Online there can be many gripes about them overall but I do believe that context matters in these situations. Again, I just want to express why this strategy could have been useful with numbers understanding that you are looking for growth alone since you are in your 40’s – the Flexguard strategy can offer protection and is noted in the prospectus but that in no way was why I felt the strategy could be beneficial.
I do respect your decision to step away if you feel that I was being misleading or not transparent – but please know this was not my intention. I wish you and your family nothing but the best. Please let me know if you would like to close out your life insurance application and I will do so.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47960433)
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Date: August 15th, 2024 9:51 AM Author: overrated plaza
i actually do believe that the "advisor" trying to sell me this was doing so in good faith, believing that it was a good investment.
shocking how someone can be a dimwit and get "licensed" after "passing" "exams" and give advice that leaves people demonstrably worse off than they were before, and definitely worse off than if they'd just put all their money in an S&P or total stock market fund.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47968656)
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Date: August 16th, 2024 8:21 AM Author: overrated plaza
i don't think that's a perfect analogy, since the coating probably doesn't damage your car.
if you put your money into this in the hopes that you'll outperform the s&p, you're nearly guaranteed to wind up with less money in 6 years than if you'd just put the money in VOO.
is there something that a car dealer tries to sell that will actually damage your car? that's what this is.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5570597&forum_id=2#47972073) |
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