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To Be Fair, I need ur take on 20th Century Classical
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Date: June 4th, 2023 5:42 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode obviously you hate Schoenberg. youve also said you dont respect Sorabji. just wondering if theres anything you like outside of obvious ones like Messiaen, Ravel and ultra-conservatives (Rachmaninoff). Perhaps Ives, Scriabin, Feinberg, Carter?
anyone else is also welcome to contribute their opinion on the topic |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:30 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Scriabin was a true musical genius. Probably also literally insane, at least towards the end, but a legitimate musical genius nonetheless. (((Copland))) was correct in his assessment, however: "Scriabin wrote truly individual, truly inspired material... but putting this really new body of feeling into the strait-jacket of the old classical sonata-form, recapitulation and all, was one of the most extraordinary mistakes in all music." Then again, that's very on-brand for a Russian composer; they tend to be masters of color, and many of them are also great melodists, but they often struggle with form (in a way that the Austro-Germans simply do not).
Ives was a visionary artist, but his actual compositional technique was often poor and I can't say I often find myself impressed with his melodic or harmonic sensibilities. Stravinsky raked a lot of his compositions qua compositions over the coals, but he also admitted that "Ives was exploring the 1960's during the heyday of Strauss and Debussy. Polytonality; atonality; tone clusters; perspectivistic effects; chance; statistical composition; permutation; add-a-part, practical-joke, and improvisatory music: these were Ives’s discoveries a half-century ago as he quietly set about devouring the contemporary cake before the rest of us even found a seat at the same table." Whether you like the results of not, it's hard not to deeply respect Ives's incredible Faustian spirit. He also straight up abandoned his good friend Henry Cowell after Cowell got charged with fucking a 16 year old boy, which was very based. And he went around literally shouting at audiences who booed his music and calling them "sissies." He also played a little D1 ball in college (not flame), and died a self-made multimillionaire back when that meant something due to his impressive business acumen. Great guy all around.
(((Feinberg))) is Jew flame.
Carter was a literal faggot and a spiritual kike and no one actually listens to his dry egghead music.
Aside from the other figures that you listed and their similar ilk, I would say that Bartok, Prokofiev, Sibelius (who often gets a "conservative" wrap but was actually very bold and experimental by the end), Janacek, Shostakovich, and Nielsen are all true 20th Century "modernists" who are well worth exploring. Also totally coincidentally, they were also all straight white males, odd case haha yeah.....
The latter half of the 20th Century gets real bleak... I guess Britten the fag and maybe (((Ligeti))) -- who is partially Jew flame and partially legit -- are worth mentioning? But pretty much any living composer you can name who isn't John Williams is going to be a Jew, a fag, a woman, or some combination of the three. Odd case haha yeah..... |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:38 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode very based and literate response thank you
the first time I heard White Mass I thought, this is what it most be like to be an insane genius.
i find Ives most palatable when he's aping melodies from American folk music. but theres something "fun" about his music and his fearless exploration |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:45 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
This is fun as hell and you just KNOW that Jews secretly hate it because this is literally the unbreakable spirit of the Faustian European Man embodied in a weird old diabetic guy banging on a shitty upright piano and shouting a bunch of crazy shit into a microphone in the 1940s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pqluMwgXQ
And this is legitimately gorgeous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8HFkYST-84 |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:51 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode i hadnt heard the first one before. that is really great. doesnt sound that crazy to me ngl 😒 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389658) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 9:28 PM Author: puce field hissy fit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46390157) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 9:27 PM Author: puce field hissy fit always enjoy your takes on classical music, brother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46390153) |
Date: June 4th, 2023 5:47 PM Author: claret diverse gaming laptop indirect expression "Feinberg"
You know, not to speak for TBF, but I think I can tell you exactly what he thinks of this guy... |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 5:49 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire I find it interesting that Mozart has a legitimate claim to being the greatest composer of all time while more or less working within his tradition yet these fraudulent modern mediocrities feel the need to push the envelope with earsplitting 'innovations'. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389523) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 5:52 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode im sure you do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389529) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 5:55 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire Bach was thought to be stodgy while alive. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389535) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:00 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode Bach codified and mastered all of the keyboard styles up to his time. he was certainly a composer who "looked back" rather than forwards. but i dont think that invalidates anyone elses work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389546) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:32 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
No composer prior to Wagner was as harmonically sophisticated as Bach was at his most experimental. (Gesualdo might be an exception that proves the rule, but he was a real freak in the truest sense of that word and he played very little part in music history after his death until he was rediscovered in the 20th Century.)
Calling Bach a "backward looking" composer just because he favored older forms misses a huge chunk of what makes Bach the greatest composer in history. |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 9:29 PM Author: puce field hissy fit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46390159) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 5:58 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode all accomplished artists deserve respect imo. you dont have to like it, but if you dismiss a particular idiom, its usually because of lack of exposure or education. i find modern harmony extremely expressive, expansive and refreshing
you might like Yoshimatsu tbh. melodic, tonal, and digestible, basically stays in the safe zone of common practice. i think his interest is mostly timbral
https://youtu.be/ANzcIon2h0s |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:14 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire > particular idiom, its usually because of lack of exposure or education.
Lack of education, perhaps, but not lack of exposure. I went through the full undergraduate sequence of music theory, so I'm by no means an expert but I'm certainly more familiar with the vocabulary of harmony and counterpoint than the average person on the street. How much more musical education do I need to begin to appreciate atonal music? |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:23 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode i think standard university music education is bunk for most ppl. the lessons and ensembles are the valuable part. I got into more "out there" stuff once I started studying more modern scores for the purpose of learning techniques for composition.
thing is that "atonal music" is a huge grab bag of styles and composers. i dont think anyone really likes "everything". but understanding *why* certain composers went in a particular direction can lead to appreciation |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:33 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
There's a fair bit of truth in this IMO |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:36 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire Great composers speak to audiences at all levels of musical understanding. Do you think atonal composers will be better understood and appreciated in a hundred years, as Beethoven's grosse fuge was? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389619) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:38 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Transcendently immortal composers do that.
Great composers don't necessarily do that. It's possible to create art that is great but also only really speaks to a niche audience. (Beethoven's "Grosse Fugue" is actually a great example of that, btw. You think that's a "universal" piece in the same way that a Mozart Piano Concerto is? Lol retard.) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:50 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire What you call transcendently immortal, I call great. Now we're reduced to playing Jewish word games. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389657) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:53 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Counterpoint: You're a fag, though. |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:54 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire Tough talk from a Jew. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389667) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:56 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Oy vey, Mortie! Ya got me!
*hisses and scampers back under a rock* |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:48 PM Author: overrated pearly regret point TBF's passion for and detailed knowledge of classical music is and has always been impressive. I have a tin ear and wish I derived the pleasure from music the way he does. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389655) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:53 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode we should all seek to have that level of knowledge and enthusiasm for at least one topic in our lives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389663) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:55 PM Author: overrated pearly regret point he also has it for elon musk, cryptocurrency and hatred of jews. a man of many passions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389668) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 6:56 PM Author: blue business firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389672) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 7:00 PM Author: talking ticket booth multi-billionaire You don't like music at all? or just classical? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389685) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 7:09 PM Author: overrated pearly regret point i like classical music to calm me down and I listen to it sometimes in the car, but cannot remember composer or song names even after being told multiple times. I do a little better with modern music which I like as well, but still have trouble remembering song and band names. meanwhile I could tell you the most intricate details of certain political matters, which I seem to remember far better than most people. memory is a funny thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389711) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 7:15 PM Author: claret diverse gaming laptop indirect expression 180 thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46389729) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 11:21 PM Author: Beady-eyed mahogany lay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46390504) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:36 AM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
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Date: June 6th, 2023 7:06 PM Author: Learning disabled casino koyanisqaatsi is not what i'd call "wallpaper muzak" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46396871) |
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Date: June 4th, 2023 11:47 PM Author: fighting vibrant orchestra pit Petrushka is the single most psychedelic piece of music ever written (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46390555) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:36 AM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
It's not even the single most psychedelic piece of music that Stravinsky wrote |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:40 AM Author: titillating genital piercing tbf seconda pratica is mostly garbage Monteverdi was a travesty for sacred music |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:42 AM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Wow |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:50 AM Author: titillating genital piercing I will be appearing on IU's music campus next semester with a "Change my mind" desk: "There hasn't been a single good song since 1600" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46391524) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:52 AM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode Now That's What I Call Conservatism Vol. 0 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46391530) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 11:56 AM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Wow
Yesterday I was prepared to hold my nose and allow you to bear mostly white children for the cause of Western Civ, but if you're going to shit talk Papa Bach, you're heading straight to the fucking camps where you belong you flat-faced little slit-slut. |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:02 PM Author: claret diverse gaming laptop indirect expression (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46391570) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:15 PM Author: titillating genital piercing I've been workshopping a massive anti-Bach screed just for u xoxo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46391615) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 3:02 PM Author: Learning disabled casino (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46400017) |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:09 PM Author: rose roast beef range TBF loves Schoenberg
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3315112&mc=11&forum_id=2 |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:10 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
Link to the "love"? Don't see it in that thread, friend.
(((Einstein))) was also a very, very, very smart man. I guess saying that means I "love" his Jewish physics now? |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:22 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode There is a great Man living in this Country—a poaster. He has solved the problem of how to preserve one's self-esteem. He responds to negligence by contempt. He is not forced to accept praise or blame. His name is TBF. |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:53 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
TBF maintained a famously acrimonious relationship with the faceless horde of XO Pumos and Quotemos, who usually expressed negative opinions about his poasts.
After TBF unleashed a characteristically antisemitic tirade in one particularly acrimonious political thread, a Pumo wrote an extremely gay and stereotypically Jewish response (filled with laughable sophistry) which ended in a curt declaration that TBF "had embarrassed himself, as usual."
TBF responded: “Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre ausgedruckt Gaypoasten vor mir. Im nächsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein!” (“I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have printed out a copy of your poast, which is before me. In a moment, it shall be behind me!”). |
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Date: June 5th, 2023 12:53 PM Author: blue business firm To be fair,
This thread made me miss Brother Swordmo. |
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Date: June 6th, 2023 12:24 AM Author: Beady-eyed mahogany lay (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46393997) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 2:55 PM Author: Violent Violent Mood Cruise Ship (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46399986) |
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Date: June 6th, 2023 12:42 AM Author: Unholy walnut national security agency son of senegal What should I listen to/read to get into classical music? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46394040) |
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Date: June 6th, 2023 10:47 PM Author: Unholy walnut national security agency son of senegal I have listened to some works from bach, mozart, and beethoven. I am mostly intimidated by the variety of different conductors/symphonies one can listen to the works in, and also how to contextualize them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46397686) |
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Date: June 6th, 2023 11:06 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode checkout the Beethoven piano sonata recordings by Brendel, Kempff and Gilels. id suggest starting with Sonata #14 or 17. Pick your favorite and become a "fan" of that interpreter. familiarize yourself with his catalog and branch from there
you may also enjoy the Greenberg lectures on Beethoven Symphonies, which are available on Audible |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 2:42 PM Author: puce field hissy fit I thought this book was really well done for a novice level, to introduce you to classical pieces both super well known and not, in a variety of styles. And providing good context on each. And obviously as you listen to more, and find out what you like, you will naturally move in different directions.
Year of Wonder: Classical Music to Enjoy Day by Day by Clemency Burton-Hill |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 2:46 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode i feel like the best way to learn to appreciate classical music is to take classical piano lessons tbh. you dont need to get good, but its the best way to gain context. back in the day, educated normal ppl played piano instead of Consoles, so it was all more accessible (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46399925) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 2:47 PM Author: titillating genital piercing "piano instead of Consoles" 180 |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 3:06 PM Author: Unholy walnut national security agency son of senegal I played a brass instrument in the past, still worth doing this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46400033) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 3:10 PM Author: titillating genital piercing Yes, any serious musician knows how to play a keyboard instrument (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46400052) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 3:10 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode id say thats even more incentive, there's a high likelihood youll accomplish something. brass players dont really get exposed to the Great Works unless theyre at that symphony level of playing, which ill assume you werent based on what youve said here
find some broke CGWBT MM or DMA in Piano graduate. tell her you want to learn piano to round out your music knowledge and appreciation. youll learn the history in the lessons alongside the music |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 9:54 PM Author: Unholy walnut national security agency son of senegal what kind of keyboard would be good for a beginner? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46401437) |
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Date: June 7th, 2023 11:19 PM Author: jade pea-brained boiling water abode no keyboards my dude. we dont do that shit here.
if youre broke get an upright
otherwise kawai baby grand or something less than $5k
honestly you should just wait until after you find a teacher and have her pick it out |
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Date: June 8th, 2023 12:14 AM Author: puce field hissy fit do you think a keyboard can be a useful stepping stone if you live in a walkup and don't have space for any kind of piano? or is it counterproductive as far as training without the natural touch/feel/sensation of an acoustic instrument? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5350493&forum_id=2#46401876) |