\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

What would a civil war look like with two blue coasts and a red middle

Divided blue forces or a war on two fronts?
angry boltzmann
  02/02/17
just walk outside bro
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
america isnt 10 years into a civil war. thats just nyuug gob...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
It's absolutely fine. Date: January 29th, 2017 9:49 PM ...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/08/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/11/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/12/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/13/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/14/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/14/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/18/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/19/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/21/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/25/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/26/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/26/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/26/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/29/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/01/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/02/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/03/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/04/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/05/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  02/09/26
...
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
it's meaningless to think about without accounting for the m...
violet haunting bawdyhouse rigor
  02/02/17
You'd lose all your forces on the coasts, but have a lot of ...
vivacious chest-beating whorehouse athletic conference
  02/02/17
How many faggot libs can fire a gun? 3 or 4 total?
frum hell
  02/02/17
It stands to reason that the nigs would fight for libs.
Canary lettuce garrison
  08/15/17
so like 5 or 6 then.
marvelous sweet tailpipe
  08/15/17
keep in mind that you don't have more than 50 miles outside ...
burgundy new version public bath
  02/02/17
control the roads and rails going to the city, wait 3 days f...
Fighting property scourge upon the earth
  02/02/17
But what about our wine and nuts?
vivacious chest-beating whorehouse athletic conference
  02/02/17
...
Talented Locale Milk
  02/02/17
and avocado toast - don't forget the avocado toast and lu...
supple lodge
  08/15/17
...
Crusty navy pozpig
  08/15/17
How could they tell? Many of those areas are already post-ap...
floppy gaping
  02/02/17
"control the roads and rails going to the city" ...
Stirring resort
  01/08/26
Red would win easily (assuming no foreign intervention).
Outnumbered hospital
  02/02/17
...
Motley alcoholic location
  08/15/17
A clean territorial split like that doesn't work today. It w...
zombie-like stimulating dilemma sound barrier
  08/15/17
markets would crash, trade systems would crumble, the fall i...
nighttime meetinghouse elastic band
  08/15/17
(Guy who gets it)
Stirring resort
  01/08/26
yeah, it would look a lot more like practically every other ...
marvelous sweet tailpipe
  08/15/17
The U.S. has always been a lucky country, and our remarkably...
zombie-like stimulating dilemma sound barrier
  08/15/17
interesting
Vigorous sepia voyeur codepig
  08/15/17
"left no permanent harm" Sure, just 90+ years o...
Stirring resort
  01/08/26
Exactly. Which is why a second civil war would be a race wa...
Exciting Vermilion Genital Piercing
  08/15/17
sure dumb fuck, whitey will be completely unified. just as t...
adventurous personal credit line
  01/07/26
SHOTS FIRED
180 flesh travel guidebook
  01/07/26
I guess the other guy is running "Dumb as Fuck" sh...
Stirring resort
  01/08/26
Fallout 3 at best at worst no life left
Sooty Psychic Pervert
  08/15/17
Cauldron Battle
Fiercely-loyal Carnelian Hall
  08/15/17
grits all of a sudden the most popular dish in LA/Seattle/Bo...
Aromatic Ticket Booth Double Fault
  08/15/17
lmao good luck getting even the simplest merger or acquisiti...
Vigorous sepia voyeur codepig
  08/15/17
Do red states know how to grow anything besides rice and sor...
spruce becky
  01/07/26
Blue states would have all the money and international suppo...
spruce becky
  01/07/26
To be fair, Oh look -- an absolutely retarded hot take fr...
glittery cruel-hearted set
  01/08/26
Wouldn't really be coasts vs. middle America so much as it w...
Disturbing swollen institution fortuitous meteor
  01/08/26
If their state is red, they will be driven by big cities. ...
Stirring resort
  01/08/26
Most of the economic firepower is driven by white men who ar...
Disturbing swollen institution fortuitous meteor
  01/11/26
who cares
diverse self-centered police squad sex offender
  01/11/26
It'd look a lot like that video of the MAGA guy throwing hay...
Irradiated amber senate regret
  01/14/26
You ever see disco fries eat oreos
sinister slate address boiling water
  02/04/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 2:56 AM
Author: angry boltzmann

Divided blue forces or a war on two fronts?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525129)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 8:26 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570773)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 8:29 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook

america isnt 10 years into a civil war. thats just nyuug gobbledygook

https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3702611&mc=230&forum_id=2#33999807

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570779)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 8:37 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook

It's absolutely fine.

Date: January 29th, 2017 9:49 PM

Author: lawman8

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3508473&forum_id=2#32494554

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570809)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 9:14 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570912)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 10:02 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570994)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 11:37 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571177)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 12:28 AM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571279)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573643)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 6:54 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573682)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 7:12 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573739)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 7:28 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573792)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 7:42 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573830)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 7:55 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573873)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:25 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49573962)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:49 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574046)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 11:01 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574522)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 11:56 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574782)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 11th, 2026 7:07 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49581674)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 5:35 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49584184)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 13th, 2026 6:41 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49587095)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:56 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49589921)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 10:07 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49590561)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 18th, 2026 8:01 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49599632)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 19th, 2026 6:54 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49602107)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 21st, 2026 5:39 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49607199)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 25th, 2026 6:41 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49618324)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2026 5:39 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49621424)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2026 6:34 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49621565)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2026 7:52 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49621780)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 29th, 2026 5:41 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49631434)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 1st, 2026 8:40 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49639836)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2026 4:56 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49642178)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 3rd, 2026 7:09 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49644769)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 4th, 2026 7:45 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49647329)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 5th, 2026 6:59 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49649515)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 9th, 2026 11:50 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49659765)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 8:52 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49570852)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 2:57 AM
Author: violet haunting bawdyhouse rigor

it's meaningless to think about without accounting for the military.

assuming the military is not a participant, it's an effete coast bloodbath.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525137)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 2:58 AM
Author: vivacious chest-beating whorehouse athletic conference

You'd lose all your forces on the coasts, but have a lot of unmanned equipment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525138)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 3:01 AM
Author: frum hell

How many faggot libs can fire a gun? 3 or 4 total?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525155)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:47 PM
Author: Canary lettuce garrison

It stands to reason that the nigs would fight for libs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995607)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:48 PM
Author: marvelous sweet tailpipe

so like 5 or 6 then.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995609)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 3:03 AM
Author: burgundy new version public bath

keep in mind that you don't have more than 50 miles outside la, sf, portland, or seattle to find very conservative people who would fight against those in the urban centers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525166)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 3:06 AM
Author: Fighting property scourge upon the earth

control the roads and rails going to the city, wait 3 days for cities to run out of food, watch lib areas degenerate into cannibalism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525185)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 3:07 AM
Author: vivacious chest-beating whorehouse athletic conference

But what about our wine and nuts?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525188)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 5:37 AM
Author: Talented Locale Milk



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525599)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:50 PM
Author: supple lodge

and avocado toast - don't forget the avocado toast

and lube and medical supplies for IBS and HIV

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995626)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:53 PM
Author: Crusty navy pozpig



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995651)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 5:28 AM
Author: floppy gaping

How could they tell? Many of those areas are already post-apocalyptic hellscapes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525593)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:55 PM
Author: Stirring resort

"control the roads and rails going to the city"

Nigger, you do know that people in Blue cities own guns with lots of bullets, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574056)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 2nd, 2017 5:37 AM
Author: Outnumbered hospital

Red would win easily (assuming no foreign intervention).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#32525601)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:32 PM
Author: Motley alcoholic location



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995465)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:35 PM
Author: zombie-like stimulating dilemma sound barrier

A clean territorial split like that doesn't work today. It worked in 1860 because Southern whites were overwhelmingly on board with the secession effort. Right now every state has at least a 25% minority supporting the other side and in most states it's more like a 40% minority or even larger. It would just be an absolute chaotic bloodbath everywhere.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995496)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:37 PM
Author: nighttime meetinghouse elastic band

markets would crash, trade systems would crumble, the fall into anarchy wouldn't take long at all

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995512)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:53 PM
Author: Stirring resort

(Guy who gets it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574054)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:49 PM
Author: marvelous sweet tailpipe

yeah, it would look a lot more like practically every other civil war; a lot of bloodshed and terrorism across the entire nation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995623)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:52 PM
Author: zombie-like stimulating dilemma sound barrier

The U.S. has always been a lucky country, and our remarkably smooth civil war is a chief example of that. It was bloody, but lasted just 4 years, permanently settled the question the war began over, and left no permanent harm. Most countries are not nearly as lucky.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995644)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 5:46 PM
Author: Vigorous sepia voyeur codepig

interesting

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33996103)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Stirring resort

"left no permanent harm"

Sure, just 90+ years of domestic terrorism and government sanctioned segregation, but no big deal.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574058)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 6:03 PM
Author: Exciting Vermilion Genital Piercing

Exactly. Which is why a second civil war would be a race war. Black/Brown/Asian vs. White will be the new Mason Dixon line...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33996221)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 11:39 PM
Author: adventurous personal credit line

sure dumb fuck, whitey will be completely unified. just as they are now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571178)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 11:47 PM
Author: 180 flesh travel guidebook

SHOTS FIRED

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571202)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Stirring resort

I guess the other guy is running "Dumb as Fuck" shctick

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574059)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:38 PM
Author: Sooty Psychic Pervert

Fallout 3 at best

at worst no life left

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995521)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 4:46 PM
Author: Fiercely-loyal Carnelian Hall

Cauldron Battle

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33995593)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 6:00 PM
Author: Aromatic Ticket Booth Double Fault

grits all of a sudden the most popular dish in LA/Seattle/Boston, why?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33996201)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 15th, 2017 6:04 PM
Author: Vigorous sepia voyeur codepig

lmao good luck getting even the simplest merger or acquisition done in red America. Do those cretins even know what a poison pill is?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#33996232)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 11:46 PM
Author: spruce becky

Do red states know how to grow anything besides rice and sorghum?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571200)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 7th, 2026 11:44 PM
Author: spruce becky

Blue states would have all the money and international support. They'd also have all the doctors, engineers and other skilled trades. Lazy stupid shitcons would either get hungry and defect or die from untreated diseases/lack of medicine

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49571191)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 10:17 PM
Author: glittery cruel-hearted set

To be fair,

Oh look -- an absolutely retarded hot take from our resident bort Jewish shitlib schizophrenic. Wow, I'm shocked!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574388)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 9:03 PM
Author: Disturbing swollen institution fortuitous meteor

Wouldn't really be coasts vs. middle America so much as it would be rural + suburban vs. urban. If anything, cities could have their supplies cut off and then they'd fall apart because of internal chaos driven by their demographic mix.

Big money power would probably welcome the fall of mega dysfunctional blue city governments. The idea that "the coasts" are filled with these left leaning Men of Action is plainly retarded. All of these types of men are right leaning, regardless of how their state votes. And even then, if their state is blue, how much of that is driven by demographic realities in a few big cities?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574081)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 8th, 2026 10:00 PM
Author: Stirring resort

If their state is red, they will be driven by big cities.

What cities do you think represent the economic engine in Mississippi? It ain't Coffeeville.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49574314)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 11th, 2026 7:54 PM
Author: Disturbing swollen institution fortuitous meteor

Most of the economic firepower is driven by white men who are much further to the right than the rest of the population. Overall economic prowess is dependent on people who are conservative more generally.

Places like NYC are blue because of demographics - and these demographics will chimp out when their supply lines are cut off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49581787)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 11th, 2026 7:22 PM
Author: diverse self-centered police squad sex offender

who cares

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49581713)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:58 PM
Author: Irradiated amber senate regret

It'd look a lot like that video of the MAGA guy throwing haymakers at protesters.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49589932)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 4th, 2026 7:46 PM
Author: sinister slate address boiling water

You ever see disco fries eat oreos

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3512934&forum_id=2#49647330)