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How Cr is being a “product manager” at a tech company?
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 7:47 PM Author: sadistic dopamine Bunch of people i went to school with are doing this chit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320359) |
Date: October 23rd, 2021 7:50 PM Author: Demanding Dark Orchestra Pit Laser Beams Very cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320367) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 7:53 PM Author: harsh casino They are stupid and dont do shit and are reviled by us Engineers yet they are tyically more successful. So i guess cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320378) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:09 PM Author: sadistic dopamine Do they generally make more than lawcucks? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320468) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:18 PM Author: 180 cordovan ticket booth no but they get free sandwiches and stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320517) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:24 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness The more senior ones at FAANG make more (base) than starting biglaw salaries but probably not much.
Typically it’s a $70K-125K range give or take.
It’s an extremely “hot” career rn that requires very little educational credentials or actual expertise in anything, so it attracts a lot of incompetent, lazy, low-integrity trash who are good at fooling Gen-X hiring committees and boomer executives. |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:25 PM Author: sadistic dopamine This is my perception too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320555) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:48 PM Author: pungent hateful field nowag The senior product managers at FAANG are all t25 MBAs. Like half my class works at Amazon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320703) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:50 PM Author: Disrespectful headpube FAANG and other big tech company product managers make quite a bit more than 125K. Base is usually 175 plus bonuses, RSUs, and ESPP. You’re looking at close to 300K all in for PMs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320716) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:55 PM Author: harsh casino (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320753) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:56 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness Yes, the $70K-$125K range I gave was for non-FAANG (or similarly preftigious/high-paying) companies. Goldman Sachs and the like are on a PM hiring binge now and I imagine they pay decently.
A rank-and-file PM at some TTT tech-wannabe outfit like Capital One or Quicken Loans probably makes $90K at best.
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:59 PM Author: harsh casino You imagine wrongly. Banks are so far behind tech cos (and on a related note so far behind prop trading firms) it's disturbing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320782) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:59 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness Imagine what “wrongly”?
Edit: if you mean Goldman-type banks offering comp packages for PMs on par with (comparable seniority level) PMs at FAANG, I know for a fact they do.
But it’s totally aspirational on their part, I know very well how far behind in terms of tech talent and (lmao) product quality they are. They think throwing money at the problem will make it go away. |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:17 PM Author: harsh casino My mistake then. I'm very surprised to hear that. Although here in ITE3, 250k starting at FAANG is way more valuable than 250k starting at GS due to the RSUs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320895) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:29 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness I’m not a PM but I guess close enough for some recruiter shithead on LinkedIn to bug me for like a month recently about some low-level-sounding PM opening at Goldman. Eventually to get him off my back I agreed to talk to him about it and he claimed he “could probably get me” $160K-$180K base.
That’s my only real datapoint TBF (other than some similar circumstantial evidence I know about what FAANG PMs make on the lower and upper ends) which I guess is why I said “I imagine.”
But at any rate I’m confident Goldman et al are consistently offering PMs something closer to FAANG salaries (plus bonuses and whatever other non-base comp are standard at ibanks) compared to the legions of TTT companies loading up on these morons on the cheap. |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 10:33 AM Author: Mint appetizing dingle berry Starting PM (i.e. straight out of MBA) isn’t close to 250k at FAANG or banks. Starting salary in NY/SF is more like 150K, and RSUs maybe bump all in to 170. It’s not until you’re a Senior PM (4-6 years later) that you’re looking at 250 all in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322507) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:20 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration who even takes those offers and who gives a shit about Goldman Sachs' tech, it would be like some ibanking MD leaving to do FP&A at FANG (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320916) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:40 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness But tech is cool, the next generation of investors all love their “Instant Gram” so we need to get with the program!
-Boomer retard ibank CEO |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:10 PM Author: thriller goal in life do you think engineers could create a successful and lucrative software business left to their own devices? i don’t. ime engineers (usually) have good analytical skills but are also weirdly retarded in important ways (eg strategic thinking, business, managing teams, basic human interaction 101).
that said some of the most impressive people i’ve ever met are former engineers that are somehow talented at everything |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:16 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration PM and all of these soft positions (marketing, design, dev relations, etc) are do-nothing jobs that late stage tech companies tack on to look more like Google and Facebook before an IPO. you can get to like 8 figure PE buyouts with just engineers and salespeople (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320510) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:23 PM Author: thriller goal in life are you sure engineers would make smart strategic decisions around driving customer retention, market focus, etc.? you’re probably right that product managers add no value. but there’s no fucking way just the engineers develop a facebook or google anywhere near the lbo or ipo stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320545) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:29 PM Author: Heady digit ratio crotch i can assure you many (most?) major features at google, facebook, amazon, et al started with a 1 pager proposal written by a striver engineer.
PMs handle the associated busywork and will bikeshed on some inconsequential aspects of it, but devs are the source of it
edit: and regarding things like market position, that's at the executive level with little to no input from PMs |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:40 PM Author: harsh casino (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320641) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 10:39 AM Author: Mint appetizing dingle berry Those are companies who were run by Stanford/Harvard grads at early stages. Not some run of the mill aspie engineer from a state school. The elite schools have liberal arts educations and pick people with well rounded intelligence. Also, don’t forget that even Google has people like Marissa Mayer when they were 20 people. But you need product managers to tell the UC Davis engineers what to do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322529) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:41 PM Author: harsh casino There is a "fucking way" and it's those exact companies (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320654) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:42 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration i have no insights on hyper growth companies that need 1000 heads in year 2 and shit like that. at that scale you probably need to look like more than 10 nerds in their basements so you hire a boomer CFO from fucking Oracle and shit like that
but yes "just engineers" (young tech people without managerial experience) have founded a bunch of middle market software companies without a single "adult in the room" type of person involved. all they really needed is something worth selling to enterprises, a few large contracts, and exit at some revenue multiple probably ~4-5x. what part of that requires some MBA fuck who thinks about "strategy"? some of these founders have like 6 and a half employees and wrote half the code themselves |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:17 PM Author: 180 cordovan ticket booth its a very halfassed job for women, harvard mbas, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320514) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:20 PM Author: Vibrant Fear-inspiring Stag Film Bbw It can be a pretty preftigious job if you are PM of a marquee product at top tech company (FAANG/hot startups etc)
Target job for striver elite uni types who can't code. |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:27 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration if you're actually gonna launch good products it's a shitty substitute for being a founder the guy who invented snapchat stories probably got like a $1 million stock bonus |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:23 PM Author: Heady digit ratio crotch the best PMs i've met are the ones that stay out of engineers way and serve as a go-between for them and the customers.
where I work the PMs aren't even the ones who propose new features or their priority. the engineers do that too |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:38 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness All PMs serve as a gobetween for engineers/designers and customers, but roughly 99% of them are absolute failures at it as far as accurately understanding, communicating, and delivering real solutions to customer desires & needs.
Roughly 50% of them have a poor or in some cases nonexistent understanding of what the product they “manage” actually is supposed to do or how it works.
A lot of TTT companies with big coffers (think big retail banks, subprime mortgage / auto lenders, etc) are scrambling to add as many of these roles as possible thinking it will turn their dogshit website and mobile app into some lauded “fintech” innovation.
Results so far are about what you’d expect. |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:47 PM Author: Heady digit ratio crotch cr. in an ideal fantasy world a PM would analyze customer requests, find their intersections and propose a feature that roughly satisfies all of them while also allowing for elegant extension to unvoiced but likely future requests
in reality they take a customer's narrow and highly specific request and repeat it verbatim to engineers. when another request conflicts with that, they just tack it onto the existing proposal via optional flags and arguments so the resultant product is a confusing, over-designed mess |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:51 PM Author: flatulent temple messiness A lot of the time IME they fuck up the “repeat verbatim” part so that it’s not even the actual customer request. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320725) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:24 PM Author: costumed giraffe weed whacker This is what they do
https://youtu.be/m4OvQIGDg4I |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:31 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration i thought this was a dubbed parody lol this was really about a software company? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320962) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:41 PM Author: costumed giraffe weed whacker How old are you? Are you familiar with Office Space (1999)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321006) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:43 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration late 20s, i've heard about it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321011) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:47 PM Author: costumed giraffe weed whacker It’s about a software company. Peter’s job is updating bank software for Y2K. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321031) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:56 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration i guess the term "software engineer" makes me think of this 2010s+ tech bubble era, that wasn't something i was thinking about in the 90s (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321079) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 10:13 AM Author: costumed giraffe weed whacker There was a massive tech bubble in the late 90s (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322465) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:24 PM Author: histrionic light mad cow disease make work job for women (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320550) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:52 PM Author: Disrespectful headpube Most PMs I’ve worked with were men. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320732) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:34 PM Author: histrionic light mad cow disease not in my experience. men tend to be engineering managers. PMs are women and URMs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321242) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:33 PM Author: Swashbuckling carmine university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320600) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:53 PM Author: harsh casino I've interacted in depth with a ~dozen at FAANG as an Engineer. One was pretty good, so yes they do exist. The rest were godawful. Unclear if the good one was more successful than his clownish peers (unlikely) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320741) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 8:54 PM Author: Wild regret son of senegal I work with these people. These people are just nags who hound “stakeholders” to sign off on the products. It’s women and gay male work through and through. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43320745) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:44 PM Author: puce cruise ship filthpig no skill job, which makes you easily replaceable and gives you no job security (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321017) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:52 PM Author: harsh casino > easily replaceable and gives you no job security
not at FAANG, or at least the non-hardcore FAANGs (so exclude netflix and maybe amazon)
basically impossible to get fired at e.g. G |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:21 PM Author: puce cruise ship filthpig most people don’t work at FAANG
Google has extremely high turnover. they might not fire you, but they’ll definitely manage you out |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 1:52 AM Author: kink-friendly windowlicker tanning salon "but they’ll definitely manage you out"
Describe this. |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 1:54 AM Author: talented metal mood range Gaslight and otherwise mistreat you in psychologically cruel ways until you snap and go on a Michael Richards-style rant that selfpwns your career forever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321988) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 9:50 AM Author: puce cruise ship filthpig (pensive) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322395) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 9:59 AM Author: puce cruise ship filthpig Google isn’t any different than any other cut-throat GC megacorp nightmare except for the fact that it has a large number of socially inept autists with no understanding of office politics in non-managerial roles that can be pushed around & kicked out very easily (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322432) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 9:57 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration if you've "achieved" a lot of cool sounding resume points without any hard skills you can probably coast on that somewhere forever (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321084) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:22 PM Author: puce cruise ship filthpig Very few Product Managers get to work on actually interesting products unless they get really lucky. All the older PMs I know have had at least one long stint of unemployment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321193) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 11:37 AM Author: Wild regret son of senegal Interviewed someone who was the product manager of Gmail. She could do no wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322694) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:22 PM Author: primrose hall deer antler It's a great place for 105 IQmos to stack cash and RSUs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321194) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:30 PM Author: Fluffy mewling internal respiration you know 105 iq is like the guy bagging your groceries right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321225) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 10:35 PM Author: histrionic light mad cow disease he's right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321244) |
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Date: October 23rd, 2021 11:06 PM Author: razzle kitchen As has been discussed extensively ITT, a well trained chimp could do a PMs essential job functions.
However, to GET a PM job at the kind of place where you can “stack cash and RSUs” you typically need a higher IQ than 105 or more specifically a pedigree (educational or otherwise) a 105 IQmo isn’t likely to have.
That said there are unicorn 105ers who are very chill and fratty and attractive (while also presenting as highly “woke” and shitlib) who of course can easily land a FAANG-tier PM role.
And of course nowadays lots and lots of barely-literate nigs and dykes and AIDSbrain fags are flooding into these lulzy sinecures (and of course making life a living hell for the competent engineers, data scientists, et al. who now have to basically take orders from them.) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 9:12 AM Author: primrose hall deer antler Lots of these “diverse” hires have ~105 IQ at best… (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322319) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 12:53 AM Author: mentally impaired idiot I’m gay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321812) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 12:56 AM Author: passionate yellow lodge Oh shit you too brother? I got an inquiry about a job doing this recently... is it as gay as it seems? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43321819) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 2:03 AM Author: mentally impaired idiot Lmao, you are a truly gorgeous pumo, my friend.
For better or worse, my job is completely unrelated to this, but I poasted ITT because of how many college peers ended up in this kind of area after doing random corporate stuff. |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 2:06 AM Author: mentally impaired idiot These peers are all very likeable (the kind who would stick their neck out for the good of their team) and the companies are the stable but unglamorous type (so they don’t seem to be under pressure to squeeze maximum efficiency out of people). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322007) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 2:09 AM Author: mentally impaired idiot Also, by likeable I mean not fake corporate two-faced likeable, but actual likeable, FWIW. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322012) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 9:19 AM Author: adventurous filthy affirmative action space Is there any next step to this career, or is PM the last stop? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322322) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 11:49 AM Author: Heady digit ratio crotch you can climb to senior and principal PM but the role is pretty siloed. i've seen some PMs become managers for software devs but they're universally reviled (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322719) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 10:15 AM Author: splenetic puppy You can create a shit product and then blame your sales team for not selling it, coast for years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322466) |
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Date: October 24th, 2021 10:56 AM Author: Grizzly Becky Didn’t sundar pichai start out as a PM? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4948358&forum_id=2#43322571) |