Atheists seem totally incurious as to why religion exists
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: September 28th, 2021 12:22 PM Author: vibrant boiling water codepig
That's many Reddit atheists, sure.
My own view is that religion is like a primitive form of philosophy. People need some organizing ideas/principles around which to orient their life and religion provides that. I don't hate or shit on religiousmos or think they're dumb, even though I think all the mystical/supernatural claims of religion are false and cannot be defended rationally. I also think that religions actually embody some genuine moral knowledge (e.g. regarding the value of human life) and have some respect for them on that basis.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43190714) |
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Date: September 28th, 2021 1:07 PM Author: vibrant boiling water codepig
lol wtf?
"You can believe strongly, as I do, in the social benefits of being a member in good standing of a religious group without accepting every fact and tenet."
But we were talking about believing in God. You said:
"Ok, do that on your own time. Believe in God, or not, in private. You can still be part of the group for the social benefits."
You seem to be treating THE BELIEF IN GOD ITSELF as being as optional a tenet as avoiding eating meat on Fridays during lent. Am I misunderstanding or are you furiously rationalizing your own questionable life choices?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43190956) |
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Date: September 28th, 2021 1:25 PM Author: vibrant boiling water codepig
Above you were advocating basically hiding your religious views to be part of a group where people had earnest religious views. You seem to keep wanting to change the topic from that. I don't know if you're intentionally obscuring what's going on or if you're just confused.
Anyways I'm aware of the phenomenon of people affiliating with stuff that's quasi-religious or has a religious background but where they want it to be more of a cultural thing - particularly Reconstructionist Jews. If people do that *honestly* and *intentionally* and if that's what you're doing, then whatever floats your boat and godspeed. If OTOH you're living a lie in order to get some social benefits, then that's sad and you should think about that.
I don't think it's a sign of maturity to lie about yourself on an ongoing basis - as like, your LIFE - in order to get benefits from others. I think it's a sign of not really having a self or soul or being confident in your own skin as a person.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43191035) |
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Date: September 28th, 2021 1:38 PM Author: White excitant site
Nowhere did I advocate for hiding your beliefs, I said your beliefs could be private in your search for an examined life as a thoughtful person. The problem often with atheists like you is you have this need to broadcast your beliefs from the rooftops, social cohesion be damned. That's what I think is immature and egotistical.
Would I hide my agnosticism if asked directly? No.
Do I value the effort my parents undertook to pass on religious principles, as their parents did before them, and on and on going back hundreds of years? Yes.
Do I think it's wise to give that up for my own ease in my own lifetime? No.
Do I think that would be fair to my kids? No.
Do I think I'm living a lie? No, I don't. No more than I'm living a lie when I choose to work at a company that espouses dumb BLM shit, or when I chose to marry someone who isn't as affectionate as I would like but is otherwise a 180 person. Maturity is understanding that the good outweighs the bad.
Good luck in your continuing search of your beliefs. I'm sure they're meaningful!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43191116) |
Date: September 28th, 2021 12:36 PM Author: Thirsty newt philosopher-king
I'm still not clear on how science disproves god. DNA, evolution, these are just the physical mechanisms for things. And evolution is a mix of common sense and conjecture imo. God doesn't have to circumvent physics. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with a Meteor. He doesn't have to shoot rays of energy like a Wizard, he can just use the physical universe.
I used to think that Aliens prove god's nonexistence because the Bible wouldn't miss something like that. But the Bible is just a series of stories written by some guys here and there, and those guys didn't see any Aliens.
I'm not exactly sure (((what))) killed people's belief in god and church attendance but it wasn't science imo.
At the same time, God's blatant nonexistence is something that's hard to ignore. It's really not that different from Santa Claus imho. 7 year olds learn of Santa's nonexistence, and when Losers turn 12 they realize god doesn't exist basically.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43190772) |
Date: September 28th, 2021 1:14 PM Author: Fragrant church building
Didn't read but isn't it 1) a tribal ingroup/outgroup marker (if you believe the same as me you are trustworthy), 2) taught to children at that age where they take in everything uncritically, 3) resonant with our tendency to assume agency even when not justified (that noise was a lion!) 4) an explanation for phenomena currently out of our ken (i.e. God did it).
Seems like atheists are actually pretty curious about it as a phenomenon and come up with a lot of work on the subject.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43190992) |
Date: September 28th, 2021 1:28 PM Author: Lavender hyperventilating piazza internal respiration
Lets all put ourselves in the shoes of Daniel Brou. It’s the 1990s, and Daniel Brou’s professors at the University of Western Ontario are encouraging him to apply economics graduate school. Joanne Yiokaris, his man Friday, stands fast by his side. The world is Daniel Brou’s oyster.
Daniel Brou, our man, claims to love Canada, Oh Canada, and Joanne, Oh Joanne, and after his brief sojourn at the University of Toronto opts to leave for…… of all places that Trash Heap in the South, i.e. New York City. Everyone knows Sex in the City gets plotted in New York City. Daniel Brou never liked New York City. He didn’t like the noise, the traffic, the trash, the crowds. He preferred the Rust Belt that is London Ontario, and his faithful, if uncomprehending, muse, Joanne Yiokaris. He wrote many songs in Spanish to Joanne Yiokaris primarily because she didn’t speak any Spanish. Daniel Brou’s creative juices flowed best when his muses had no idea what he was talking about. He loved seeing the blank faces of his students staring back at him.
Daniel Brou worked and worked. And worked and worked. And worked and worked. Joanne, in her long-distance phone calls, never wondered why her true love didn’t stand by her side. Without question, she accepted his decision to go for the big names over the small names. Daniel wished every day he was in sunny Canada next to his true love, and then he faithfully sat in front of the computer and cranked out a few more pages of his dissertation.
Meanwhile, those brats, those pains in the ass, i.e. his students, became more demanding. Hey dood, they said, what I am, “Bologna? What nation are you living in?” Daniel Brou just ignored the masses. Let them eat cake, he thought. Daniel wished for the true, the only meaningful ones—his hometown, his alma mater, his Trueist of true loves. The Trash Heap to the South really needed to keep a lid on it.
One day Daniel Brou got close enough to dissertation completion, and his advisors did some cutting and pasting with his master’s level work. Suddenly, the interminable painful process had ended and they kicked him out the door. He hit the pavement clutching his PhD diploma. It occurred to Daniel Brou the mass market couldn’t tell the difference between him, the guy who just earned a PhD from UPenn, the guy who graduated a couple years ago from Harvard. They were all “homogenous skilled labor” who fit a particular need in the labor market. None of this was relevant to Daniel Brou because he desired the One, the True—the hometown, the alma mater, the first love.
So because he was an attractive guy and people really didn’t think critically about male economists, the Daniel Brou was returned to the place from which he came. Far far away from the Trash Heap to the South. After proving his manhood, his courage, his resiliency and his wit in the Trash Heap to the South, he returned triumphant to the One, the True, the Real.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43191051) |
Date: September 28th, 2021 7:04 PM Author: bonkers shrine personal credit line
I'm an agnostic but I would actually be okay/relieved if religion was real and this wasn't all just flame.
The issue is how the fuck am I supposed to know which one is the correct one? There's a lot of options and some very very hardcore true believers who are convincing.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43192803) |
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Date: September 29th, 2021 11:34 AM Author: saffron potus
It's not real.
It's just an indoctrination that occurs when you are little and are evolutionarily designed to take nothing your parents say with a grain of salt. (Those who listen to mom and dad and take what they say as gospel were more likely not to fall to their deaths, eat the poison plant, catch a cold, etc.)
The fact that there are so many religions so devoutly followed, and that the specific religion depends in large part on the religion you had growing up is evidence of this.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43195645) |
Date: September 28th, 2021 7:19 PM Author: bat-shit-crazy range
their explanation is that humans wanted to know why things were so, and so they dreamt up a little fairy tale about a giant skyyyyyyy fairy
xo shithead are so retarded about this issue. no one believes in god these days
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43192853) |
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Date: September 29th, 2021 11:28 AM Author: medicated self-centered jew
uh it's literally the explanation of why/how religions started. people asking "why are things the way they are?"
ethics, afterlife, etc. all came later
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43195613)
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Date: September 29th, 2021 11:36 AM Author: saffron potus
That's the current justification. I'm not sure it's still so valuable today based on that though.
But don't say it gives us our morals, as that's baloney. We already knew not to kill and not to steal and not to be jerks long before some priests figured if they offered it up as a "moral code" it would better justify their taking of the best parts in cookouts.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43195653)
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Date: September 30th, 2021 8:13 AM Author: magenta trip university wrinkle
I don't think religion plays any meaningful role today since very few people actually believe it.
Even (especially?) American churchgoers.
American evangelicals are often really cruel, vicious, and meanspirited people. They display none of the fruits of the spirit. See, e.g., "Christians" who are supposed to emulate Jesus chanting "Fuck Joe Biden" and wishing harm on desperate immigrants.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43200050) |
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Date: September 29th, 2021 1:49 PM Author: saffron potus
No. It doesn't.
We are social creatures and learn basic fairness and reasonably rational behavior. We learn it on a platform predisposed to grasp these concepts (except for pure psychopaths). Early babies recognize good behavior and bad behavior, and gravitate toward those who show good behavior.
Even dogs recognize fairness in equal snack distribution. Gorillas play fair in designed fairness games, even to their own temporary detriment, and get enraged when a player does not.
The fact that we seem to come with certain fairness behaviors pre-loaded is not evidence of God--it's evidence that we evolved in tribes.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43196432) |
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Date: September 30th, 2021 9:43 AM Author: saffron potus
So you are saying that until the ten commandments people didn't know in general that it was wrong to steal and wrong to murder.
Don't think so.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43200358)
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Date: September 30th, 2021 5:38 AM Author: Fighting amethyst institution
Agree, the Reddit autists are unable to step back and acknowledge the utter strangeness of reality and consciousness. When they do, they come up with stuff like simulation theory, which is essentially religion without any moral imperative.
Our ancestors who were more pious/devout had to live with a lot more mystery in their daily lives than we do now. It’s hard to imagine waking up in a world where you are seeing stuff like the sun , lightning , earthquakes, the stars , etc and not having any understanding of what those phenomena are or how they work. Now the common person has a pretty good grasp on the basic mechanics of these things, but if you probe a level or two deeper the mystery is still there. Why are there laws of physics? That’s pretty fucking weird in itself, our reality is governed by a set of arbitrary rules that just *exist.*. Also shit at the subatomic level that I don’t pretend to understand, etc. “Science” has not and arguably cannot answer these questions. To not care about the root causes of any of this or to just shrug and say “science “ is fundamentally incurious .
I know none of this stuff forces the inference that there is an omnipotent creator, although the governing principles of our existence gave rise to the sim theory stuff which is tantamount to a belief in a higher power. At some level even the redditors know atheism/“science” is totally insufficient for anything other than a very surface level understanding of our experiences.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43199892) |
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Date: September 30th, 2021 11:07 AM Author: Fighting amethyst institution
Does anyone except the /r/atheism crowd think that religion means believing in a bearded man on the throne in the sky
Also in simulation theory our purpose is literally to entertain , ie serve, our creators .
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43200708)
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Date: October 1st, 2021 5:40 AM Author: Fighting amethyst institution
In the most broad sense a belief that the human consciousness (or maybe consciousness of all living things) transcends death. I describe any belief of that nature is religious or spiritual in nature .
A more narrow definition of religion (vs spirituality) is that religion ascribes some form of higher purpose to human life, set in motion by either a higher intelligence or a set of immutable rules/principles that are not merely physical in nature (ie do not solely govern the behavior of matter) but require humans , as intelligent, self- conscious beings capable of reflection, to make efforts to abide by those standards and impose costs for not doing so (whether hell, or just having a bad karmic balance or whatever). The intelligence of the governing force is sort of a spectrum, with Greek pantheon on one end and eastern religions on the other.
I think atheists reject both of the above, by definition. Otherwise they are agnostic. And I can’t think of a world religion that doesn’t embrace both of the above principles though I’m far from a theology expert.
I acknowledge that at some level there is a false dichotomy between “mere” physical laws and spiritual ones. Right now, we are not aware of any law of physics that requires us to engage in certain behaviors but there are physics concepts that create questions about free will, mind body relationship, and all the above. The lines are getting blurred at the extremes. Im sticking to a conventional understanding that physics doesn’t yet explain why we experience consciousness nor does it impose any sort of ethical code on humans .
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43204961)
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Date: September 30th, 2021 1:36 PM Author: saffron potus
Good man.
But this is not proof of a creator because of multiverse contention. You have to say that if you are going to bring up the fundamental constants or fine-tuning argument.
It's pretty much axiomatic that either there is a creator or we live in a multiverse. There is mathematical and experimental support for the latter, not the former.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4931659&forum_id=2#43201416) |
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