for older people like in their 50s whose kids have left the nest, i think getting "tired" of each other is one way to put it, but it's rarely mutual. a lot of times, 1 person just kind of checks out. The other person puts up with it for a while and eventually gets the courage to file for divorce or is double humiliated and is the defendant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45015876)

2) humiliation 2: despite willingly being a doormat is still discarded

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45019134)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45019352)

Last night she said “well we can be separated, co-parent, and still even hook up.”

I started howling laughing at her after the hooking up line. I laughingly said, you think I’d ever want to touch you again if we separated? She was devastated and I just walked away and went to bed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45015997)

Also, I suspect she said all this to hear you say "no, we should stay married."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016293)

some examples:

1) H ditches stay at home W with 3 kids and provides no financial support. She loves him and wants to stay married but files for divorce because she has no choice.

2) H and W are married for 30 years and have 4 kids. H starts cheating and tells W that he wants to stay married but have an open relationship. She's not willing to do that and just wants her old, monogamous marriage back. W files for divorce.

Rarely, if ever, do I have a woman come into the office super amped up about getting divorced.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016065)

The reality is that women initiate the divorce and are doing due to their own volition

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016219)

There are choke points for marriage: (1) immediately (i.e. first 6 months), (2) when the children are between ages 2-6, (3) immediately after the kids go to college, and (4) end of life. The most common time for divorce is when the kids are young, that's the hardest part of a marriage and the pressure that young kids puts on a relationship makes any existing problems in your relationship that much worse.

It is usually the women who file, but I don't lay the blame on these failed marriages solely on women. IMHO women file because the law favors them in divorce, but it does not follow that women are excited or happy to get divorced, as many have to face the daunting prosect of single-mommyhood (or single past their prime). It is extraordinarily rare that people hire attorneys and seek a divorce while the people still love each other and want to be married, the actual relationship is usually unbearable. That's the interesting thing about divorce, of all the aspects of it that are miserable and hurtful to a person, the loss of companionship of their actual spouse usually is so far down the list that it is never even mentioned.

IMHO as to why marriage can be so miserable: modern gender roles. It was clear for 2000 years how marriage was to work in the western world, and then modern sexual mores and modern roles for the relationships between the sexes sprouted up out of nowhere to replace the old system to disastrous results. If you judge a tree by the fruit it bears, modern value systems/ feminism/ weak-manism, etc. in regards to the effect on a marriage are pure poison. This matters, too, as statistics show that divorced children are far worse off than children from stable families, statistics show that divorced people are worse off by virtually every financial metric, etc. etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016003)

"That's the interesting thing about divorce, of all the aspects of it that are miserable and hurtful to a person, the loss of companionship of their actual spouse usually is so far down the list that it is never even mentioned."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016018)

Now, let's be real, the process of divorce pretty much destroys any bond people have left, the cost and nastiness of even a simple divorce is immense.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016037)

And all that didn't work out because they're still single at 30+. Everyone almost certainly has a ton of baggage.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016467)

Also LOL at giving up your 20s to smash tail to lock down some chick at 24.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45017591)

(Even looking at numbers naively should bespeak caution of your approach — see https://ifstudies.org/blog/want-to-avoid-divorce-wait-to-get-married-but-not-too-long)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45020226)

once a woman has your kids, her sole focus is on the kids and the man is merely a resource.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016337)

These women are already two-faced. Men just delude themselves, thinking that they'll never wind up on the shit list

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45017048)

My point is that the bond that you described to me does not seem necessary, it's certainly an added plus to have a bud to hang out with, but you can have a successful marriage without that element.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016633)

"If you judge a tree by the fruit it bears, modern value systems/ feminism/ weak-manism, etc. in regards to the effect on a marriage are pure poison."

any insight on what the solution is? i dont think we can put pandora back in the box, so what advice are we to give to our daughters?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016164)

The modern world is a world of lies. If you listen to what TV says, or popular music, or liberals at the University, or politics, they are selling a version of the world that claims to give "liberation" or "self fulfillment" or something positive, when really it's lies that bring misery. This is especially true for women, as our world wants nothing more from women but to have them be mindless consumers of whatever is being sold.

I'm teaching my girls to be girls, to hold themselves to standard, clean their rooms & make their beds, have table manners, not be crude, not to use profanity, and I am very aware of what entertainment they consume. We go to church almost every Sunday, and we go with our friends and neighbors. We talk about love and happiness, the importance of family. I talk to them about our family, their grandparents and great grandparents, about how they should strive to make not just their parents proud but how they need to uphold the family name. I work hard and we talk about the importance of hard work. I don't cuss in front of my kids, I am never drunk in front of my kids, I talk about how much I love their mother, and how someday they'll have wonderful families themselves. I do everything with them, the only part of my life that they are excluded from is work. They maybe hear what I say to them, but they really see how I treat people and how I interact with the world, and I am very careful to always set a good example for them.

I also don't hesitate to tell them there are bad people in the world, disgusting people that will try to hurt them if they get the chance.

What else is there to do but raise them to try to be focused on family and their own dignity?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45019204)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45019301)

Because Eve - having been convinced by Satan that it's beneath her dignity as a great noble queen - refuses to bow to God or Adam's legitimate patriarchal authority...

...she instead ends up bowing to a vegetable, that is, the Tree of Forbidden Knowledge, aka "Godlike" "power"...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45019319)

I forget the post, but someone on this site referred to "the great relearning" and I really liked that idea, the idea that you really have to go back and relearn how to conduct your life more in accordance with what our grandfathers and great-grandfathers were like. Scripture is a great starting point for this, and the Bible describes marriage as an adversarial relationship which it is

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016618)

I was raised in a house like your fiancé and told my husband from the start (we began dating at 19) that I wasn't a replacement from his mom and expected us to treat each other as equals in the relationship.

I'd say a lot of the work distribution in our house is dependent on our dog walking schedule. We rotate who walks the dogs in the morning and evenings, so the non-dog walker makes coffee in the morning and dinner at night. If someone is cooking dinner and doesn't need help, the other will usually go do a chore or chill out / work on a personal project if nothing needs to be done.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016640)

It takes a tremendous amount of self-discipline to live life outside of what your nature desires and still be happy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5173515&forum_id=2#45016656)