(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47620945)

Both sides know it’s not true, but by making the claim, you are forcing the other side to do the impossible: prove a negative.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621244)

Can you elaborate as to what you believe was the main cause of the CW?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621366)

but don't think about that. keep voting for open borders because it's "oh so humanitarian" to import a slave-like underclass to pick your strawberries.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621382)

Yes, quotes from those speeches (with links to the full text so that we can see whether wage-preservation was the principal argument) will be useful.

Would it be useful for me to quote SC’s declaration of secession where they proclaimed that they were seceding to preserve the institution of slavery, or are you already familiar with that document?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621480)

sure, if you can prove me wrong in that thread i'll pull some speeches about absolutists regarding it being about economics.

note: of course there were some radical abolitionists who did have humanitarian motivations. but the fact they were labeled "radical" may clue a careful reader in on whether their views were in the majority.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621500)

just like how today everyone who claims that importing migrants to work for poverty wages isn't about humanitarianism is also just a racist pretending to care about the migrants and fellow citizens.

in this house no person is illegal, conturd. least of all my gardener, who i pay a princely sum of $3/hr to tend my plantation. i mean, azaleas. not stop distracting bort humanitarian epah who is flying from hawaii (island where whites liberated the natives who just so happen to live in poverty serving whites) to california (mexican territory liberated by whites where natives just so happen to live in poverty serving whites).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621546)

Also I’m flying from Boston to Hawaii so you were obviously wrong ^^

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621577)

I forget if you’re part of the anti-Semite crew, but even among that crew there are people who wouldn’t deny the Holocaust, but nevertheless oppose what they perceive as undo Jewish/Israel influence. Both positions might be anti-Jew, but they aren’t the same, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621711)

i'm not an antisemite i just like to be edgy on xo sometimes. although i do think jews have an outsized influence on the economy and politics. but i don't think it's because of some conspiracy nor do i prejudge jews (or any group) based on observable trends of their group. i'm a realist (although you'd probably lump that in with racist), but i don't think observable trends in groups justifies disparate treatment of groups.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621727)

Did you find those speeches you referenced ^^?

I’m not sure what you mean by “confront it head on.” Maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough. My point was that a primary purpose in opposing the expansion of slave states (after the congressional headcount) was moral opposition to *slavery. That of course doesn’t require 100% (or even a majority) of citizens in Northern states to also desire integrated schools. In fact I’ll bet we could find lots of abolitionists who opposed integrated schooling (although I imagine it was so unthinkable at the time that it wasn’t even an issue for discussion). Is your point something like “your abolitionist rhetoric isn’t sincere unless you also support integrated schools”?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621883)

"report contains x", "report doesn't contain x", here's a quote from the report saying x." responding that "i don't believe the conclusions of the report are justified" is different than "that's not what the report says." although i'll pull the speeches later if you just admit you were wrong and glib :)

i meant "confront it head on." you're a smart guy, did you really not understand that from the context, or are you pointing out an obvious typo as a devastating pwn?

i thought i clearly stated my point from the beginning. but i'll clarify:

"the push for abolition was primarily for economic, and not humanitarian reasons. this is demonstrated by the fact that former slaves frequently lived in worse materially conditions after slavery and we continued to utilize slave labor abroad."

if the union was opposed to slavery for moral reasons why would they continue to utilize slave labor and allow blacks to live under worse material conditions after emancipation? the unavoidable conclusion is that they didn't care about blacks being mistreated, but were concerned about their own conditions, and how they would worse off if they had to compete with slaves. hence *why* the debate principally centered around expansion into new territories rather than abolishing it at home. and yeah, having more free state representatives mattered -- because they wanted more free states, i.e. places where citizens could compete on equal footing. the didn't give a fuck about what happened to blacks after they were freed. nor did the give a fuck about people enslaved abroad. they were in it for their own benefit, not out of humanitarianism or altruism.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621933)

Now, the quotes or sources you have in mind that support your belief that abolitionists in fact were more concerned with protecting white laborers than morality?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622366)

please don't misunderstand -- the laborers are always exploited and get fucked. the fight was between the modern capital system of the north (entrepreneurs and industrialists) versus the aristocratic system of the south (large plantation owners). although the north definitely had more populist fervor because free labor enables more class mobility than an entrenched aristocracy.

i definitely think the union was more on the side of populist white labor than the south. i mean, otherwise why wouldn't the south just emancipate to begin with? but i don't think union, which was powered by cheap laborer in deplorable conditions, cared *that* much about the working class either.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622611)

No, actually, we couldn’t. Your example derived from mine, not the other way around. I guess logic wasn’t your strong suit.

Thinking there is some monolithic “reason” behind the civil war is midwit thinking at its finest. Historians like to pull the “politicians said ‘X’ and newspapers said ‘Y’” logic to support their claims. However, in the case of the civil war, slavery is easily ruled out. Not only is it ridiculous to think that hundreds of thousands of men just happened to perfectly align between states to fight each other over something that had little to no impact on them, we also know the Civil War didn’t end slavery in the US, slave states fought in the union, and slavery was a dying enterprise anyways.

I always like to bring up the Iraq War because we all lived through it. By your (implied) standards: the war in Iraq was 100% about weapons of mass destruction, everyone who fought in that war was fighting over WMDs, and implying there could be any other reasons for the war or for Americans enlisting is blasphemy and retard level logic.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622175)

If your contrary argument is “historians are full of shit and don’t know the REAL cause of the Civil War like I do,” then it gets really hard to argue with you, and I might as well argue with tbf.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622383)

Don’t hold out on us: give us a percent!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622565)

lmfao blacks were just treated "somewhat differently in social spheres" during the race riots and lynchings that occurred across union states for a century after the civil war.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621489)

I’m not sure what you mean by #1 or how it relates to this erudite discussion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621716)

this is also demonstrated by how former slaves frequently lived under far worst material conditions post slavery. which you downplay as "haha well people aren't monolithic and they just wanted separate but equal." despite the fact that studies across the globe post-slavery universally concluded far worse materially conditions.

of course, this is the point in the debate where you clutch your pearls over me "conflating chattel slavery with living conditions." because that handy trick allows you to retain the moral high ground while continuing to oppress (in some wars worse) an underclass of people. but before you do, let me be clear that, of course, chattel slavery is uniquely evil and abhorrent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621770)

this really is prime normiecon bait

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621279)

it's good content sir

https://x.com/realChrisBrunet/status/1785321789544931571

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621292)

the truth is that these made-up rationalizations for why the shitlib religion is Good and Must Be account for a lot more of their power over people than most "redpilled" people like to admit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47621303)

https://files.catbox.moe/cubxij.png

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622658)

Whoa are you telling me that a Jewish billionaire would just *lie* about something that harms white people?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5523084&forum_id=2#47622883)