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So for Darwin's theory to be right...
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:53 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range The pre-cambrian creatures just had to simply mutate their DNA, landing on the one-in-ten-trillion-trillion-trillion chance that a new protein would be useful, and early enough in fetal development, and do that a gazillion times for enough proteins to develop some useful new adaptation that branched off a new species, all the while avoiding the trap that nearly all mutations are fatal before reproduction occurs?
And this explosion of mathematically near-impossible mutations all happened in a geological blink-of-an-eye, and among thousands of species? Everyone just won the lottery just before the Cambrian period and sheep with weirdly large intestines and misformed feet suddenly became horses, instead of dying?
Also, oops, left no fossil trail.
seems legit |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:55 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Early life simply occurred after a serious of random fortuitous mutations that caused an explosion of life, which in turn caused more mutations and evolution. This is observable fairly quickly, in just a few generations. Not difficult to grasp. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730071) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:42 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night This. Also OP missing the point that there are trillions of worlds in the universe attempting the same thing, and one of them worked and yielded us. Had it not happened here, it might have happened elsewhere, and we would be there observing OP saying the same dumb polisci shithead words. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735103) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:27 AM Author: Insanely creepy snowy main people market "life just finds a way"... (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730228) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:50 AM Author: Aphrodisiac Address Mathematically near impossible things happen all the time (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730321) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:54 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range (guy telling his boss that it's "possible" he'll get the work done by 12PM) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730337) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:59 AM Author: Aphrodisiac Address What are the odds that the sperm that created you won the race when the bull took off your moms clothes? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730366) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 8:42 AM Author: kink-friendly windowlicker 50/50 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734746) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:00 PM Author: MAGA's Prolapsed Anus (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733018) |
Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:54 AM Author: faglord What did you study in school? What do you do for a living now? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730064) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:55 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range im a roofer (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730072) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 1:28 PM Author: purple fantasy-prone coffee pot (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730955) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 5:56 PM Author: Tripping Ruby Juggernaut (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38732709) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 8:45 AM Author: milky fluffy sex offender associate (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734749) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:44 AM Author: Useless space corn cake Excellent moniker for a roofer (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734828) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:47 AM Author: Histrionic greedy son of senegal (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735122) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 2:51 PM Author: boyish patrolman (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735819) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:55 AM Author: cheese-eating university place of business lol you’re a fucking creep (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734841) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:56 AM Author: Charismatic Shrine Roast Beef the only way I can wrap my head around it is by focusing on the enormous scale of time we are talking about here. Otherwise yes the probability that good mutations suddenly appear but then also are able to spread (despite fact that these good mutations only give marginal benefit in the face of chance in wild nature) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730078) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:01 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range Gelernter et al, say that despite the immensity of time, the math doesnt work out. There still wasnt enough time. Scrambling DNA sequences for a single protein, with say 10000 characters, each spot picked from 20-something amino acids, are astronomically likely to be gibberish or result in death. To hit a good one - and then a combination of good ones that may or may not result in an advantageous mutation, it would take longer than the 50 million years or so the geological record constricts us to. (Some geologists say its even as narrow as 10 million). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730100) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:18 AM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple The problem I have is that protein searches don’t need to be uniform random across all amino acids. Yes, if linking 1000 random amino acids was the process used, then it’s impossible. But nature is pretty awesome, and I wouldn’t be shocked if finding new proteins by perturbing existing ones or if there is some sick natural algorithm used. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730184) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:48 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range this is compelling. but it's already stepped away from "random mutation" into some code-behind-the-code. for "nature" to employ a narrowing tool to avoid the bad math of pure random selection, it's already displaying what could be termed "intelligence".
It's using a math tool teleologically |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 12:00 PM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple This is sort of the motivation for why Wolfram went nuts with cellular automata. What looks like chaos or randomness that’s beyond the scope of human intelligence may make sense within a simple natural algorithm. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730372) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:44 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night lmao (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735111) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 12:38 AM Author: Comical Bull Headed Therapy Lay Gelertner was one of the Unabomber's victims. He got disfigured but obviously survived. Wonder what xo Ted thinks of him now. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38737969) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 6:00 PM Author: burgundy gas station crotch (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38740558) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 12:41 AM Author: Comical Bull Headed Therapy Lay It's always seemed the other way around to me. Like I read about this prehistoric creature called pakicetus, which was basically a dog that could swim really well. This thing supposedly evolved into whales, orcas etc within 50 million years. That never seemed to me like enough time for a dog to turn into a blue whale. Glad someone is finally calling fraud on this. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38737975) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 11:25 AM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple I don't think they're calling fraud on that happening. It just didn't happen the way we've historically attributed it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38738928) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:58 AM Author: Soul-stirring Angry Trump Supporter Evolution is like the ultimate scientific theory for liberal artists/psuedointellectuals/reddit atheists because there are no maths or even science really. I have never seen a discussion/debate about evolution that doesn't either:
1. Beg the question, or use it as a rationalisation for itself
2. Differentiate the obvious micro-evolution for birds in the galapagos or human dick sizes versus the massive leap in logic required in order to form the human eye or Monkeys arising from nothing in the era subsequent to the dinosaurs in mere millions of years (not billions or trillions, which would at least make sense).
3. Avoid referring to using the word "evolution" in place of God/intelligent design. i.e., "Humans have incisors to bite into food because of Evolution."
Jewishness, and Yahweh's omnipotence, will be proven correct in the long run imho. Seriousness aside, there is an impetus behind things that has alluded lazy scientists hitherto. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 10:59 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Both are true. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730096) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:00 AM Author: Soul-stirring Angry Trump Supporter Both of what are true. What does evolution has to say about your Gayness? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730098) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:02 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping I mean the LORD and evolution are not mutually exclusive. I've heard a lot of evolutionary arguments for gayness. And evolution aside, there are a lot of good arguments for it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730107) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:03 AM Author: Soul-stirring Angry Trump Supporter Idk, races are clearly a result of evolution and the differences are massive. Maybe it doesn't take THAT long for evolution to occur. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730109) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:07 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping It doesn't. Plus, the evidence for common ancestry is overwhelming. Yes, we are extremely different from monkeys but a chimp and human genome are 99.9% the same.
In any case, evolution is OVER because 1) we can now edit human DNA at the germ line, adding or removing or editing any gene and so we now have a power that is utterly incomprehensible and society is woefully unprepared to deal with and 2) we will soon be using technological upgrades to transcend this biological substrate that took millions of years to evolve but will become about as relevant as a first gen iPod in just a few decades. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:58 AM Author: Aphrodisiac Address Evolution isn’t over. Gene editing isn’t available at 7-11 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730361) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 12:08 PM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Essentially, it's over man. Matter of time. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730427) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:10 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range im telling you, critics explain the math even for dumbs like me. landing on a viable protein through randomly mutating DNA, which orders the amino acids, is dealing with exponential numbers in the trillions-trillions-trillions. And winning that lottery just gets you one good protein. That then has to combine with other lottery winners to form some adaptation at just the right moment in gestation to change the animal's form. And that change is almost certainly likely to cause early death.
Hitting all the right combos on one species, such that it evolves to a brand new species, would be astounding. To do so as a way to explain the origin of ALL these cambrian species is unreasonable. Even a hundred million years doesnt give you enough generations, mathematically. And the cambrian explosion of species didnt have half that time.
Darwin knew nothing about cellular development and DNA code, obviously. His theory only works for local mutations, like longer beaks. Not for horses arising out of frogs. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:10 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Hi dumb,
Horses didn't just "arise" from frogs. Jesus. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:13 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range that was the most flippant phrase in my post. What do you say to the claim that, now being able to do the math in how many correct amino acids you'd need to randomly land on to form a useful protein, it's apparent that there wasnt enough time to explain the appearance of new species of animals?
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:15 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping There are things that are far less likely than your amino acid mutation, that have happened. Many, many things. Like, for example, the universe existing in a way where life could exist to begin with.
Also, your claim is bunk. There was plenty of time. Do you get how much can happen in billions of years? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:24 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range lol u have no knowledge of this.
there were not billions of years to get it done and that is the main point. We know when these creatures didnt exist and then existed.
these species originated between the pre-cambrian and cambrian, and the window of their origins is disputed to be between 10M and 70M years.
the whole criticism is saying "you probably couldnt duplicate this bookshelf of text with the time limit we have", and youre saying, "YES WE COULD... if we had a lot more time". No shit. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:26 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Aliens? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730225) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:29 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range who the fuck knows. it's enough to say that darwin's guess was akin to saying, "poof, this indescribably mathematically unlikely event just happened, carry on fags". Maybe it did, or maybe aliens did land, who the fuck knows, one is as believable as the other (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730244) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:12 AM Author: Charcoal sweet tailpipe except Darwin thought it happened due to math.
except he was just a polysci shithead and couldn't do math.
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:11 AM Author: Exhilarant rambunctious pisswyrm (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730143) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:45 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night we have observed evolution in human timescales, darwin's part was just explaining natural selection as the mechanism (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735117) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:59 AM Author: Heady marketing idea Funny you bring up the eye. Vertebrate eyes are terribly designed and don't really make sense unless you view it as the result of billions of years of guesswork, especially considering there are better designs (like what we see in giant squid). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735161) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:14 AM Author: gamers rise up "macro-evolution" isn't falsifiable and is in the same category as evolutionary psychology - something that can be inferred to a certain confidence level and if true, successfully explains the world around us, but is far from actual "science" and certainly not concrete fact
micro-evolution is real science and we can directly observe it |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:16 AM Author: doobsian scourge upon the earth gaping Almost like micro could lead to macro over billions of years. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730170) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:34 AM Author: gamers rise up it could, we just don't have direct evidence for it. it's an educated inference in the same way that evolutionary psychology is an educated inference
as the OP pointed out, it's pretty suspicious that the math doesn't add up and we don't have any fossil record of transitional species |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:06 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness We have millions years worth of fossil records of transitional species. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733051) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:47 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night literally almost every fossil in existence is of a transitional species (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735125) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:47 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night >we don't have any fossil record of transitional species
if a fossil isn't of a currently living species, then it's a fossil of a transitional species wtf do you think "transitional species" means |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:33 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range except micro-evolution does not result in new species, so it's an entirely different question.
As to the question that is the literal title of the book, we literally have no fucking idea where species originate from |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:18 AM Author: nubile cordovan lodge Oh well. Guess I'll fuck a Catholic priest then. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730186) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:48 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night in the case of the guy OP is talking about, you mean suck an infant's dick (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735128) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:20 AM Author: bright institution potus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuEaJDksxls (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730193) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:27 AM Author: Big pea-brained meetinghouse lol @ xo 2019 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730231) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:32 AM Author: Soul-stirring Angry Trump Supporter You impoverished a plurality of the board (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730262) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:01 PM Author: Big pea-brained meetinghouse ? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733023) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:07 AM Author: kink-friendly windowlicker They deserved it (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734764) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:32 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range im sure we will find the fossils of transitional species any day now. they're just, somehow, harder to find (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730263) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 12:05 PM Author: Aphrodisiac Address Plenty of evidence of transitional species. Neanderthal were close enough to breed with. Denisovans too. All three were clearly descended from a common ancestor. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730400) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:07 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness No, the issue is that people like you, who have already made up their mind, will always want more until we have a complete fossil record for all life on this planet. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733056) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:50 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night This. Nearly every fossil is a fossil of a transitional species. It's just that when you discover a new species, the gap between that one and the next one becomes a new "missing transitional species"
It's the continuum hypothesis in action: there's always another point between two points in a continuously-valued set |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:35 AM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple He’s having a legit discussion that’s currently an open research topic. Are you just one of those people who doesn’t understand shit, but sucks up to rich people?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noj4phMT9OE |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:37 AM Author: Beady-eyed lilac masturbator (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38730281) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:02 PM Author: Vivacious hilarious trailer park (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733025) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:11 PM Author: Anal area links unironically to peter 'cuck' robinson (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733076) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:44 AM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple Calm down. He's just conducting the interview. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734827) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 5:54 PM Author: onyx depressive (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38732699) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 5:57 PM Author: Tripping Ruby Juggernaut There's actually a merits debate in this thread. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38732715) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:50 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night Really hard to find with people parroting "where are the transitional species" 65 IQ bullshit "Evolution is not definitively proven, *pats back* I've disproved liberalism!" |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 6:56 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness This doesn't blow anything up. Infinite time, near infinite universe, infinite attempts until life is made. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733003) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:01 PM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple It blows up the process of evolution as we understand it, but doesn’t really kill related, but more complex ideas. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733021) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:07 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness No, it doesn't. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733057) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:23 PM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple Infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters will produce Shakespeare. But monkeys covering every inch of the earth’s surface for the entire existence of this planet across all 10^24 number of planets in the universe won’t even write one line of a sonnet (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733116) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:26 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness Infinite planets, infinite time, infinite monkeys. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733135) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:29 PM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple Your problem is that infinite doesn’t exist. Just because it’s too many zeros for you to comprehend doesn’t mean it’s enough (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733151) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:31 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness Time appears to be infinite. Infinite iterations. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733161) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 6:36 PM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple What the fuck does that have to do with the Cambrian period? Are you implying some proteins formed in some other iteration of the universe showed up on earth during that time? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38736733) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:08 PM Author: bright institution potus but there wasn't infinite time (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733062) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:27 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness Ok, 14B years since the Reset button was last pressed. It is unclear how many times the game was played before this iteration. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733147) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:00 PM Author: Nighttime razzle library twinkling uncleanness Also, there is an extensive fossil record despite all the things that prevent fossils from surviving. ID has tried poking holes, but evolution is still by far the best theory. People have been attacking it for a long time, and they can't seem to make a legitimate dent. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733017) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 11:19 PM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range Being the best attempt is something I suppose. But that doesn’t address critics claims that it, too, is demonstrably unlikely to be true (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733958) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:02 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre Take a drawer of silverware. Throw it violently against the kitchen wall. Repeat this ten million times. What are the odds the silverware will fall at random into a configuration that crudely approximates the structure of the Eiffel tower? How much more intricate is the human brain? Sure, just a series of random mutations, the blind result of an impersonal universe's getting on some kind of hot streak. |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:55 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night But that's not what the theory says. Instead it says that you throw them until they approximately something insanely simple that can replicate, and then only the things GOOD at replicating keep replicating. JFC the state of xo in 2019. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735148) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 2:32 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre Is not infinity still required? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735762) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:08 PM Author: Anal area you neglect the anthropic principle. given that we're here we must have gotten here somehow. the only question is why we find ourselves on a planet where life developed so quickly against the odds you describe, instead of one that is billions of years older. the answer may lie in the great filter. it may be far likelier for consciousness to evolve quickly than for a planet not to be destroyed - or at least to remain a hospitable place for life - for eons |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:13 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre Definitely. What we've long taken consciousness to be instantiating in AI says it all. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733087) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 8:22 AM Author: Anal area so simulation or boltzmann brain? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734730) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:34 AM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre 100 million years are the same as 1 minute, under infinity. Boltzmann brains are obviously bullshit. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735080) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:53 AM Author: Anal area well, they do lead to a reductio ad absurdum of sorts, similar to the skeptic's argument from error in epistemology. not sure why YOU think they're bullshit though (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735145) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 2:21 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre I do so because its proponents, who say that it's no less likely for such a brain to come into existence fully loaded with a lifetime's worth of memories than for such a brain to be the result of slower moving evolutionary processes, are implying that one way only happens to be faster, despite that time itself is irrelevant given an infinity with which to work. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735719) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 2:24 PM Author: Anal area no it isn't. bousso solved the infinity problem https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-multiverses-measure-problem-20141103/ |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 2:28 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre That article is way too long. Author spends six paragraphs simply introducing the subject t matter and central question.
Can you please summarize what the problem was and how it was resolved? |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 5:11 PM Author: Anal area you suggested that time being infinite makes it irrelevant to do a comparison of odds of different hypotheses (e.g. are there greater odds that we are boltzmann brains or 'real'?). this is like saying there are equally many even integers as integers. sure it's mathematically true. but within any finite subset of consecutive integers there will always be about twice as many integers as even integers. bousso uses a similar idea to measure the odds of shit happening in an infinite and ever-expanding multiverse |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 8:19 PM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre Maybe I'm not up to understanding this subject. You seem to have a better grasp on it. Thank you anyway for your thoughtful reply. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38736979) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:33 PM Author: Anal area i'm gay (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38737241) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 11:15 AM Author: Fishy Excitant Theatre I take time as a measure of the change that a thing realizes in its relative spatial position or its internal disposition. Without change there is no time. Mine is admittedly a mystical view in which the proverbial tree that falls in a forest only makes a sound if there is sufficiently proximate something capable of registering changes in the rates of vibration had by the air molecules. These molecules would not even be affected if nothing else were there to perceive that potential affect. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38738900) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2019 7:12 PM Author: brilliant laughsome senate kitty cat What's left out and assumed away by almost every explanation of evolution is the high likelihood of lamarckism, i.e., the inheritance of certain beneficial acquired characteristics. We're all taught in 3rd grade it's totally false. However there is plenty of science to the contrary. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38733079) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:12 AM Author: kink-friendly windowlicker Lamarck got new life with epigenetics (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734771) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 8:45 AM Author: violent provocative mad cow disease puppy xo creationist clique sup (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734748) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:28 AM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range the tldr version is:
1. darwin looks at species explosion and says, probably random mutation leading to these new species
2. modern bros: we know now shit you didnt, in particular how long it would take to do random mutations and there wasnt enough time in the window
3. darwin fanbois: but forget the window, time is infinite |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:43 AM Author: Talented Pontificating Temple (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734825) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 9:56 AM Author: bright institution potus https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UqQAAOxyAs9SM0HH/s-l1600.jpg (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734846) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:56 AM Author: Lascivious Ungodly Queen Of The Night in fairness, #2 is programmers who are inventing shitty models (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735153) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 12:07 PM Author: MAGA's Prolapsed Anus (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735182) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 10:00 AM Author: cheese-eating university place of business so which are the spaceporn alts ITT? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38734851) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:45 AM Author: my dog can log into xo more often than I can (and he’s neutered!) I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735115) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:48 AM Author: Anal area same (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38735131) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 5:12 PM Author: odious spot Darwin is right, but that also means we're alone in the universe, ljl (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38736395) |
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Date: August 24th, 2019 11:32 PM Author: Dun property Panspermia seems at least as plausible as ID. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38737738) |
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Date: August 25th, 2019 6:37 PM Author: purple fantasy-prone coffee pot *lib shouting "EVOLVE" at his cat* (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#38740660) |
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Date: November 4th, 2019 4:32 PM Author: concupiscible sienna lettuce range (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4329077&forum_id=2#39070553) |