Protip: most Ukrainian success are purely due to NATO. Iraq had no backers. If they were heavily backed then it would have looked like Korea or Vietnam where the US couldn't advance and in the case of Vietnam outright lost.
This is the dumbest line pro-Ukrop supporters use and it is pure propaganda. Russia expected that Ukraine would sign Russia's incredibly milquetoast peace terms in three days. By the way, terms that generous are no longer on the table. They did not think their 10-15k troops would capture a city of 3 million that had something like 100k troops defending it.
Let me guess: you were super confused when instead of wiping out the Russians the great Ukrainian counter-offensive actually resulted in negative gains.
The reason Americans were so pissed is that the war was totally pointless and Vietnam was irrelevant to us. The US technically "won" in Iraq and people are still pissed for exactly the same reason. For Russia Ukraine is historically Russian land and they're watching all the countries that have historically been their enemies line up to harm Russia and Russians. Without NATO assistance Russia would have taken 100% of Ukraine a long time ago and everyone knows that. So given the facts on the ground Russians think they're actually doing ok. Sure, they wish progress was faster but many are also happy that there isn't a full WW2 style mobilization, that losses are reasonable and that the economy is functioning well.
Here's the difference between you and I. I can read Ukrainian and Russian and follow both sources. You don't know any Russians, don't read Russian sources, have no idea what's going on on the Russian side. The Western reports of Russian casualties is an ongoing joke.
You're commenting on two things in your post. 1. Russia's goals, and 2. How Russians assess their losses. However, you actually have no idea about either because you only read Ukrainian and pro-Ukrainian sources. Pointing that out is directly responsive.
Date: March 6th, 2024 1:28 PM Author: aromatic address roommate
As to their goals, all I did was parrot what you said, my friend. And your post that I labeled "nonresponse" didn't say a word about "goals".
Instead, what you did, and what you always do, is that you try to discredit what i'm saying by claiming that you have better or more knowledge and are therefore correct irrespective of the truth or merits of your arguments. If only there were a word for that.
Ah, you thought you were paraphrasing what I said. You weren't. It could simultaneously be about NATO presence on Russian lands and also regaining control over those lands (in part, to prevent NATO/Western control over those lands).
LJL at this idiotic Russian apologism. U.S. intelligence predicted that Ukraine would fall immediately after the Russian invasion. The U.S./NATO didn't do shit until the war had been going on for several months and it became apparent that Ukraine's military was a credible fighting force.
In contrast, Saddam had a far larger and better funded military than Ukraine did. Despite that, the U.S. invaded on March 19, and had taken Baghdad and toppled Saddam's regime by April 9. Even if Saddam had external backers, the war would have been long over before he got a single weapon from them.
Sorry, Russiacuck. This had nothing to do with NATO backing. Russia's problem is that its military can't beat its way out of a paper bag.
No you're just a gullible idiot who mindlessly accept's Putin's propaganda. Did you ever turn on a television set during the Maidan Revolution? Neocons like John McCain and Lindsey Graham were bashing Obama nonstop for not supporting the Ukrainians. The idea that this was some type of CIA plot is one of the most ridiculous Russian lies. If the CIA has the ability to rally massive protests that can topple the regimes of unfriendly countries, then why the fuck is Putin (or any government unfriendly to the U.S.) still in power? The reality is that Ukrainians recognize that Russia is an autocratic, backwater shithole, and they don't want anything to do with it. They want to align with the wealthy, prosperous, and free West. This really shouldn't be hard to understand, even for a Russiacuck.
I watched the office building where I worked get charred during the Maidan Revolution. You forget, I lived there. I watched it every damned day. I followed it closely. I'm guessing you don't know shit about what Ukrainian nationalists did to a bunch of people, including outright murdering them in grotesque ways (burning them alive in Odessa, for example).
"The idea that this was some type of CIA plot is one of the most ridiculous Russian lies"
Let me be clear: it was 100% a CIA/MI5 plot. Just like the other "color revolutions." Ever wonder why the signs in all these places are largely printed in English? Or how leaders easily escape if they lose to establish bullshit governments in exile like in Belarus? All of this costs money and the West is footing the bill.
"The reality is that Ukrainians recognize that Russia is an autocratic, backwater shithole"
Serious question - what do you know about what Ukrainians want or don't want? The number one country Ukrainians left to is ... Russia! Russia, by the way, doesn't have closed borders (unlike Ukraine) so if anyone is unhappy to be on the Russian side they can leave. Weirdly, Donetsk, Lugansk, and other Russian held cities have kept their populations (and even increased them). Meanwhile, anyone who can flee Ukraine does and the only reason even more don't flee is because the border is closed.
Date: March 7th, 2024 12:07 AM Author: irate umber legal warrant spot
All I can say is that I hope Putin is paying you to spread his propaganda and that you aren't actually stupid enough to believe any of this. Once again, if the CIA has the ability to launch "color revolutions" anywhere they want, why is Lukashenko still in power? Why is Putin still in power, for that matter? Do you have any critical thinking skills at all?
Date: March 5th, 2024 2:26 PM Author: electric locus
Arab and Slav armies just aren't comparable. We would of course do better against Ukraine than Russia is, but it wouldn't be a cakewalk. Consider that even Serbia using 1950s air defense systems was more formidable than Saddam's huge SAM network. Further reading here. https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_den01.html
"We would of course do better against Ukraine than Russia is"
Would we do better against Ukraine if Russia, China, Iran, NK, decided to everything in their power to protect Ukraine? Because that's the comparison. IRL, we would lose just like we did in Vietnam. We also failed to take North Korea. We're also likely to lose in Taiwan (and didn't even attempt to save Hong Kong).
Achieved nothing??? We funnelled billions to special interests and defended Democracy for 20 years! All at the cost of likely less than a million mostly brown people (i dont count the cancer deaths).
Date: March 6th, 2024 6:51 PM Author: Magenta frozen forum
garand thumb just did a video with some doods on drone tactics and they are very clearly american/british special forces being paid to retire and go run shit in ukraine, we probably have thousands of doods over there
Have you seen the numbers for overall aid? The West has collectively sent hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine. Not hard to suddenly pay people absurd money to go fight.
I'll also note that the most common NATO soldiers come from the lowest paid countries. In other words, $10k/month isn't a huge amount for an American but it absolutely is a huge amount for a Pole or Latvian.
Got it. So now we’ve established the US easily waltzed into Iraq, and left at its own choosing 20 years later.
While Russia has been in the absolute fight of its life to make it a few miles across their own border (never mind that the US was waging war on the other side of the planet).
Is your position still that these are similar performances militarily? If you say yes, I have a follow up question / what’s your IQ?
Date: March 6th, 2024 7:16 PM Author: Magenta frozen forum
we waltzed in then waltzed out having failed to ever meaningfully secure the nation, and obviously that isn't a similar performance since they didn't even have real weapons
And how is Russia doing on meaningfully securing the nation? Oh wait, they’re still in the fight of their life to try to take it, with far greater casualties in two years than the US sustained in 20 years.
I know conservatives hate America, and I know you love Russia, so you’re obligated to take these absolutely moronic fucking positions. But do you ever take a step back and think “wow I’m really fucking stupid” when you make moronic posts like this?
Cr i too remember when we accomplished the mission of conquering Iraq, instilling democracy in the populace, and what a cakewalk it all turned out to be. Just one more tally on the board for the Adults In The Room.
Date: March 5th, 2024 8:57 PM Author: Onyx Trailer Park
There was that time the US smashed pretty hard through Iraqi lines and sent them out of Kuwait, but pussyass OP probably forgot that we never even made a push for Baghdad that year, and that it was deemed imprudent at that juncture. He just remembers sneaking downstairs and seeing his daddy jerk off to videos of Norman Schwartzkopf.
Date: March 6th, 2024 8:43 AM Author: Sexy cracking factory reset button giraffe
Case in point the many threads completely reimagining americas wars against desert turds wearing sandals as some kind of immense victory. Astonishing.
Funniest of all is the cognitive dissonance washing over the faces of democrats in the brief moments they can be forced to cognize that they now agree with dick cheney on most issues.
Why are you so fucking stupid? How much money do you make? I’m guessing you’re coming in around $175/year, which is a better than average outcome for the shithole law school you went to. How’d I do?
Date: March 6th, 2024 8:19 AM Author: dull garrison
TLDR. All Hahols are going to die. Then all Poles. And Russia is and will be a vassal of China for the next 500 years. Americans are idiots. China is building factories all over Russia and exporting $300bn a year to what easily could have been a US ally against China. The US is run by tards.
Imagine if the US spent a decade+ driving around Iraq in expensive hardware occasionally triggering an IED built by Iran-backed militias using random garbage, then left having achieved none of its strategic objectives. Wait, I don’t have to imagine that because I can remember it.
But yes this Russian invasion is also pure shit. Fucking embarrassing to watch an empire that once stretched to Germany struggle to reconquer a backwater full of its former serfs. Oh no they have drones and a modest amount of barely operational artillery, let’s hide in this filthy hole in the ground!