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Lichtman on CNN refusing to deny that his interpretation of the keys was wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDMF90S7HwU dude just doe...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
The other day he said his model didn’t fail, the elect...
Sexy walnut boltzmann friendly grandma
  11/09/24
and Ann Selzer said her Iowa polling *caused* the votes to f...
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
LJL
Sexy walnut boltzmann friendly grandma
  11/09/24
...
Zombie-like Demanding Coffee Pot
  07/19/26
why does he say the model "failed"? why doesn't he...
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
as posters here and nate silver have pointed out, if you ana...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
intereting, thanks. every lawyer knows that no list of 1...
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
Tcr The more factors in a test, the more wiggle room for ...
claret frisky community account
  11/09/24
cr. Lichtman's model is a Breyer-balancing-test gone mad. ...
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
all cr. but there’s also nothing that interesting abou...
Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry
  11/09/24
Lol this guy said Kamala was charismatic and Trump isn&rsquo...
lsd
  11/09/24
he said that Trump wasn't the most charismatic person ever I...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
Critics frequently challenge Charisma/National Hero Keys 12 ...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
Why doesn’t this guy take a break jfc
Buff locus organic girlfriend
  11/09/24
Cant stop wont stop
claret frisky community account
  11/09/24
so i just spent more time looking at this clown than i shoul...
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
its "objective" to the extent that he says it is, ...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
Political science writ large is retarded and should be banne...
Buff locus organic girlfriend
  11/09/24
It's close to an oxymoron
multi-colored trailer park karate
  11/09/24
TITCR-- the more I learned about this guy and his vaunted &q...
Diverse Primrose Water Buffalo
  11/09/24
he’s gone 1/3 in close contests. he’s literally ...
Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry
  11/09/24
what's your fascination with this guy?
Self-absorbed marvelous parlour
  11/09/24
OH MY KEYS!
Metaphysics is Gay
  11/09/24
You can't predict shit, YOU ARE SHIT!
bearded hateful clown
  11/09/24
itt - retards who think they can turn the keys better than t...
faglord
  11/09/24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnIbFFzpD8
henna milk candlestick maker
  11/09/24
...
razzle-dazzle orchestra pit
  11/09/24
well…yeah.
Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry
  11/09/24
I cannot go back! I'll handle them. Handle us? You'll...
garnet juggernaut ceo
  11/09/24
He is still the Lord of the Keys.
exciting crackhouse corn cake
  11/09/24
He knows he can squeeze out a little more grift if he just h...
cordovan splenetic newt
  11/09/24
Everything else except prediction markets should jump off a ...
Flushed international law enforcement agency lodge
  11/09/24
He wrote books about the keys. Probably worth a lot of $$$ f...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
The way in which he gets incredibly defensive (even before t...
nighttime resort brethren
  11/09/24
The funniest part is his absolute refusal to acknowledge tha...
vermilion lettuce native
  11/09/24
...
rough-skinned step-uncle's house
  07/19/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:01 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDMF90S7HwU

dude just doesn't get it.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315260)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:03 PM
Author: Sexy walnut boltzmann friendly grandma

The other day he said his model didn’t fail, the electorate failed his model.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315265)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:09 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

and Ann Selzer said her Iowa polling *caused* the votes to fall Trump's way.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315287)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 3:53 PM
Author: Sexy walnut boltzmann friendly grandma

LJL

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315794)



Reply

Date: July 19th, 2026 1:22 PM
Author: Zombie-like Demanding Coffee Pot



(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#50009965)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:09 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

why does he say the model "failed"? why doesn't he claim that his model is spectacularly good over the decades but no model is perfect?

btw, i think the guy is bullshit.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315285)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:16 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

as posters here and nate silver have pointed out, if you analyze each of the 13 keys correctly, it would have held Trump winning. HIs TDS got in the way, said shit like Kamala had more Charisma than Trump, no scandals in office, etc

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315301)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:19 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

intereting, thanks.

every lawyer knows that no list of 13 general factors can be applied with the mathematical precision Lichtman claims for his model.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315309)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:20 PM
Author: claret frisky community account

Tcr

The more factors in a test, the more wiggle room for biased interpretation

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315313)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:25 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

cr. Lichtman's model is a Breyer-balancing-test gone mad.

for example, how do you weigh the factors? just add them up and 7>6? what if 3 of the seven were close calls and all 6 were clearcut? would it still simply be 7>6?

it's bullshit. but if he'd just back off a bit and say that it's a very useful model for getting a rough feel for things, he'd be right.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315324)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:04 PM
Author: Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry

all cr. but there’s also nothing that interesting about a system that says “if the economy is bad and there’s international discord and the opponent is really likable then those are generally negative signs for the incumbent.”

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315836)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:20 PM
Author: lsd

Lol this guy said Kamala was charismatic and Trump isn’t?

This guy is obviously a partisan hack trying to larp as objective above it all “numbers guy”

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315312)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:26 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

he said that Trump wasn't the most charismatic person ever I guess? Don't really understand this key, Kamala had negative charisma so that should have been a consideration

. The Keys Prediction

Amidst this turmoil, the Keys remained constant, accounting for the late change in the Democratic ticket. Early in 2024, the incumbent Democrats had definitively lost two keys. They forfeited Mandate Key 1 because of U.S. House losses in 2022 and Incumbent Charisma Key 12. Biden’s withdrawal and the nomination of a younger candidate (age 59 at the time rather than 81) brought fresh enthusiasm to the Democratic campaign. Still, Harris had failed in her bid for the Democrat’s 2020 presidential nomination, was largely invisible as a vice president, and has only recently become the 2024 nominee. Thus, she fails to secure Key 12.

Trump’s legal troubles did not impact this tally of two negative keys. As in 2016, he did not meet the criteria for turning Challenger Charisma Key 13 against the incumbent party. Biden’s withdrawal cost his party Incumbency Key 3. However, by uniting Democrats around Vice President Harris’s candidacy, he avoided the loss of Contest Key 2, leaving Democrats with a three-key rather than a four-key deficit. In addition, the Democrats lost Foreign/Military Failure Key 10 because of the Middle East humanitarian catastrophe with no good end in sight. The final tally is that the Democrats lost four and secured nine keys. The model would predict the defeat of Harris’s incumbent Democrats only if they held seven or fewer keys, that is, a six-key or larger deficit. With the Democrats holding a two-key cushion, the Keys model predicts Harris will become America’s first woman president and its first president of mixed African and Asian descent.

The following nine keys line up in favor of the incumbent Democrats.

Contest Key 2: The Democrats have united in near unanimity behind Harris.

Third-Party Key 4: In recognition of his fading support, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. suspended his campaign. His endorsement of Donald Trump does not impact this key.

Short-Term Economy Key 5: It is too late for a recession to take hold of the economy before the election. The National Bureau of Economic Research, which provides the most reliable assessment of recessions, typically takes a few months to establish that the economy has fallen into a recession .

Long-Term Economy Key 6: Real per-capita growth during the Biden term far exceeds the average of the previous two presidential terms.

Policy Change Key 7: Biden has fundamentally changed the policies of the Trump administration in areas such as the environment and climate change, infrastructure, immigration, taxes, and women’s and civil rights.

Social Unrest Key 8: Despite sporadic demonstrations, social unrest has not risen to the level needed to forfeit this key: massive, unresolved unrest that threatens the stability of society as in the 1960s and early 1970s.

Scandal Key 9: Republicans in Congress have tried and failed to pin a scandal on President Biden. His son Hunter’s crimes do not count as scandal, which to do so must implicate the president himself and generate bipartisan recognition of wrongdoing.

Foreign/Military Success Key 11: President Biden and Biden alone forged the coalition of the West that kept Putin from conquering Ukraine and then undermining America’s national security by threatening its NATO allies. Biden’s initiatives will go down in history as an extraordinary presidential achievement.

Challenger Charisma Key 13: As explained, Trump does not fit the criteria of a once-in-a-generation, broadly appealing, transformational candidate like Franklin D. Roosevelt or Ronald Reagan.

However, even if subsequent developments in Ukraine most improbably flipped both the Foreign/Military keys against the White House party, the deficit would be five keys, one short of the six negative keys needed to predict the incumbent party’s defeat. Thus, despite polls showing an uncertain election, the Keys’ prediction of Harris’s victory would not change.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315327)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:26 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

Critics frequently challenge Charisma/National Hero Keys 12 and 13 for their allegedly subjective application. However, as defined within the system, a candidate must have provided critical leadership in war to be considered a national hero, as exemplified by Ulysses S. Grant and Dwight D. Eisenhower. Candidates like George McGovern or John McCain, who performed heroically in war but played no leadership role, do not qualify. Similarly, a candidate only earns either charisma key by qualifying as a once-in-a-generation, across-the-board appealing candidate. Only a select few leaders have met these criteria. Among presidents since 1900, those tabbed as meeting the requirements of the charisma indicator include Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama—all of whom won election to a second term, except for Kennedy, who died in office. In contrast, five of nine presidents since 1900 who lost Charisma Key 12 failed to win a second term: William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush, and Donald Trump.

Despite much criticism of how I turned this key, Donald Trump does not qualify as a broadly inspirational candidate. Although a practiced showman, Trump appeals only to a narrow base. His presidential approval rating in the Gallup Poll averaged 41%, putting him at the bottom of all past presidents . In two elections, Trump lost the people’s vote by an average of 3% and a combined 10 million votes . According to 538’s polling average for mid-October 2024, only 43% of Americans had a favorable opinion of Trump after his nearly a decade as a candidate and president .

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315328)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:18 PM
Author: Buff locus organic girlfriend

Why doesn’t this guy take a break jfc

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315307)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:19 PM
Author: claret frisky community account

Cant stop wont stop

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315311)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:30 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

so i just spent more time looking at this clown than i should have.

he treats his "keys" like golfers treat holes in match play, right? you won it or i won it. there's no ties. there's not "both sides have some of this key" or "each side is weak on this key."

and each key, no matter how close the call, gets the exact same weighting. keys that swing strongly to one side or the other get the same weighting as keys that are close calls.

it's like match play in golf for 13 holes. reach "1 up" and you are the winner!

it's so fucking absurd to pretend that it's an objective process.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315344)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:37 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

its "objective" to the extent that he says it is, for each key. lmao

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315369)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:40 PM
Author: Buff locus organic girlfriend

Political science writ large is retarded and should be banned.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315382)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 3:56 PM
Author: multi-colored trailer park karate

It's close to an oxymoron

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315806)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:43 PM
Author: Diverse Primrose Water Buffalo

TITCR-- the more I learned about this guy and his vaunted "method" the more I'm astonished that someone this retarded was universally regarded as a "NOSTRADAMUS" of politics

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315394)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:08 PM
Author: Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry

he’s gone 1/3 in close contests. he’s literally worse than a coin flip.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315849)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:42 PM
Author: Self-absorbed marvelous parlour

what's your fascination with this guy?

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315390)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:45 PM
Author: Metaphysics is Gay

OH MY KEYS!

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315400)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 1:49 PM
Author: bearded hateful clown

You can't predict shit, YOU ARE SHIT!

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315421)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 2:06 PM
Author: faglord

itt - retards who think they can turn the keys better than the master

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315470)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 2:14 PM
Author: henna milk candlestick maker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNnIbFFzpD8

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315486)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 2:24 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle orchestra pit



(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315518)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:06 PM
Author: Green Stimulating Forum Dingle Berry

well…yeah.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315839)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:08 PM
Author: garnet juggernaut ceo

I cannot go back!

I'll handle them.

Handle us? You'll handle us? You know, your predecessors had a lot more respect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXGE0vuuaDo

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315851)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:09 PM
Author: exciting crackhouse corn cake

He is still the Lord of the Keys.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315855)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:13 PM
Author: cordovan splenetic newt

He knows he can squeeze out a little more grift if he just hangs tight. Same with most pollsters

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315866)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:21 PM
Author: Flushed international law enforcement agency lodge

Everything else except prediction markets should jump off a cliff and commit harikari on the way down

If this idiots keys are worth a damn, he'd monetize that edge in betting marketa instead of telling me for free

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315890)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 4:38 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

He wrote books about the keys. Probably worth a lot of $$$ from libs

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48315943)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 10:53 PM
Author: nighttime resort brethren

The way in which he gets incredibly defensive (even before this election, when he fought against people telling him his keys weren't perfect), is hilarious. You can tell hes way too invested in his "model" to ever acknowledge its limitations.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48317323)



Reply

Date: November 9th, 2024 11:31 PM
Author: vermilion lettuce native

The funniest part is his absolute refusal to acknowledge that his interpretation might have been off this time around. I saw so many interviews with him prior to the election where he would literally scream at interviewers who questioned him on his interpretation of some things, then the election happens and he is wrong. Who does he blame? The electorate for being irrational and misinformed. The keys are supposed to predict the electorate so this is puzzling to blame them

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#48317482)



Reply

Date: July 19th, 2026 1:23 PM
Author: rough-skinned step-uncle's house



(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5630930&forum_id=2#50009968)