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Half of Math 55 @ Harvard = Jewish
Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 24th, 2008 7:27 PM Author: Pungent pozpig lulz
Math 55 does not look like America. Each year as many as 50 students sign up, but at least half drop out within a few weeks. As one former student told The Crimson newspaper in 2006, “We had 51 students the first day, 31 students the second day, 24 for the next four days, 23 for two more weeks, and then 21 for the rest of the first semester.” Said another student, “I guess you can say it’s an episode of ‘Survivor’ with people voting themselves off.” The final class roster, according to The Crimson: “45 percent Jewish, 18 percent Asian, 100 percent male
http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/why-can2019t-a-woman-be-more-like-a-man |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:49 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Oh. My. God. What a dreadful, dreadful class. Thanks for bringing back some memories I've been suppressing for 6 years. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586140) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:51 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What is the topic? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586141) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:52 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church calculus, analysis, algebra, nerddom, being a virgin (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586147) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:55 PM Author: Pungent pozpig describe MOAR about the class and people in it (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586157) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:59 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Think of the weirdest, most introverted kid in your high school, add 30 IQ points, put him in a room of 20 other doods just like him who aren't wearing deoderant. Start doing math. Never stop. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586168) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 8:57 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No, really what is the class on? Can Harvard students really just not do real coursework like math and science? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586162) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:00 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church I'm not sure I understand your questions. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586174) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:01 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What are the teaching in Math 55? Multi-variable calc, linear algebra, what? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586176) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:03 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Yes, vector calculus and algebra with a heavy proofs emphasis. It's really the same stuff most other schools offer, just at a more rigorous level. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586180) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:03 PM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair,
You have to have turned down Yale, Princeton and MIT to even hope to comprehend the syllabus. HTH. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:06 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig To be fair,
My quantum mechanics class involved tougher math than this. My point is it is sad that half the people who self-selected into can't complete the course.
Edit: I've always been skeptical how many people who majored in TTT majors at Harvard are actually smart and how many were just the best students at some shit podunk HS and paid out the ass for SAT prep. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:07 PM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair,
You are obviously wrong, Albert Einstein would clearly struggle for his B in this class. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:11 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig One widely held belief about Einstein is that he failed math as a student...Einstein laughed. “I never failed in mathematics,” he replied, correctly. “Before I was fifteen I had mastered differential and integral calculus.”
http://www.time.com/time/2007/einstein/3.html |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:11 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Einstein would dick-frappe everyone in that class, including the instructor. They'd all have mushroom welts on their foreheads (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586202) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:48 PM Author: Provocative nowag point Correct. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586326) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:44 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Einstein "dick-frappe" a current Harvard professor in math? Not in a million years. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587878) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:57 PM Author: Odious jet striped hyena market explani (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588768) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:04 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Einstein did applied math, not the abstract math harvard profs are working on these days. Scientists still turn to mathematicians to help with their research. I'm sure Einstein could have learned it, but if you pit the knowledge he had vs. a harvard profs in pure math, it won't be close. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588802) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 3:11 PM Author: exhilarant talking tattoo sanctuary indeed, Einstein did turn to Minkowski for help with math needed for his general relativity theory (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#14646159) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:10 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Your quantum class likely was tougher. A lot of people sign up just to claim they signed up, and have no intention of staying beyond the first week. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586198) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:18 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza I didn't go to harvard, but I'm reasonably familiar with the contents of the class, and it's unlikely that any physics class aimed at undergrads was tougher than 55, let alone an intro qm class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586478) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:22 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Prolly depends what the QM class covers. Everything they learned in 55 was a prereq for QM, plus you had to self-learn additional math on top. It's not like the harvard class was getting in polynomial rings, Galois theory, or integration on Euclidean n-spaces (or these kids would have a B.S. after 1 year). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586492) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:25 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm not referring to the syllabus - it is the difficulty level of the problems they tackled. I know kids who would have destroyed any undergrad physics class elsewhere and said that 55 was the most intense experience of their life. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586503) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:30 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Like I said, it depends on the physics program. Asking someone to calculate psi for an electron in a hypothetical 7 dimension box is gonna be harder than the problems they are doing. It is one thing to say the material is hard, it is another to say the professor choose to use hard test questions. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586521) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:31 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza no - it would not be tougher. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586529) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:34 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What did you major in? I have a feeling you have no clue what you are talking about. Since I learned both the math and QM, you must be flame - this isn't even close. We are talking about basic math in the harvard class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586549) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:36 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i majored in math and physics.
edit: this is not an intro math class. this is a class where most math grad students at most phd programs would struggle. you have no clue what you're talking about.
edit again: possible identifying info removed. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:39 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig And so did I. I'm just not sure why you think this Harvard 55 class is so special. Most of the class is a small step above linear algebra and multivariable calc. Granted it appears that people take it as freshman, but that doesn't mean the math is harder.
Edit: Now I'm calling flame dude. I know people who took this course. To say phd mathematicians would struggle is a joke. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:41 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza because it isn't a typical intro math class.
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:43 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm also curious how you would think a class where (approximately) the 20 best math undergrads at harvard struggle couldn't possibly be hard. that's basically 1/4th of the putnam top 50 each year taking the class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586603) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:45 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Because the brightest scientific and mathematical minds are not at harvard. The majority of the class gets an A. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586616) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:45 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza why don't you check out putnam results from the past few years first. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586617) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:49 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I know Harvard has the most top50 in Putnam results. But using the Putnam results is like using some Moot court competition (OMG, Stetson has the best litigators in the country!). Not that many people actually do it, plus it is based on 6 questions (edit: sorry, 2 parts of 6 questions).
Edit: Further, here are actual test questions. These don;t require a once in a generation mind to solve.
Shanille O'Keal shoots free throws on a basketball court. She hits the first and misses the second, and thereafter the probability that she hits the next shot is equal to the proportion of shots she has hit so far. What is the probability she hits exactly 50 of her first 100 shots?
Let k be a positive integer. The n-th derivative of 1/(x^k-1) has the form P_n(x) / (x^k-1)^{n+1} where P_n(x) is a polynomial. Find P_n(1).
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:55 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza you have no idea what you're talking about, wrt putnam or the rest of the thread. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586675) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:58 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I don't know a single person who actually took it.
Here is the actual 2002 test. http://www.math.niu.edu/~rusin/problems-math/putnam.02probs
Are you telling me you think this is really finding out who the brightest minds are?
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:01 PM Author: Onyx floppy locus stock car how quickly could you do this math 55 problem set?
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic92739.files/ps9.pdf |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:06 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig After having done no more complicated math than some law & economics work in the last 6 years, I wouldn't even complete it.
In my prime, maybe a week. Clearly within the week you are allowed. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:08 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza the fact that you don't know a single person who took it, and that you have no idea how hard the putnam is, is telling.
edit: how in the world could you have gone to a top school and majored in math and not known someone who did the putnam exam? |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:11 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I just posted the test, look at it. If you want to argue this shit is really hard for a Harvard freshmen, I'll grant you that, I'm impressed. But you are claiming that this shit is hard for someone with a phd in math. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586718) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:15 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza note that the two questions you listed are are the first questions from each session, which are invariably trivial.
once again, by suggesting that the putnam is not a good test of mathematical ability for the top undergrads, and that the top undergrads don't take the putnam, you reveal your ignorance. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:10 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza by the way, are you implying that you'd find the putnam easy "in your prime"? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586714) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:12 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig By no means. Its what a 6 hour test? Shit is rough. The LSAT would also be a bigger joke with more time. Just because a test is hard doesn't mean the material is hard. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586721) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:27 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza also - what's so tough about "integration in euclidean n-space"? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586512) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:32 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I don't find it hard, but when you make it a crazy amount of dimensions it gets harder. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586531) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:34 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza if you're referring to the technical difficulty involved in integration over multiple dimensions then you have no idea how hard stuff in 55 gets. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586547) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 8:29 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater "It's not like the harvard class was getting in polynomial rings, Galois theory, or integration on Euclidean n-spaces"
LMAO you're clueless about math. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:15 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza re your qm class being tougher: probably not. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586459) |
Date: December 24th, 2008 9:04 PM Author: Lascivious Gunner what do those guys go on to do after that class? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586185) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:05 PM Author: French trailer park 2 chicks at the same time (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586187) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:07 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church It's mostly math concentrators with a couple physics guys thrown in. Many go on to math grad school - maybe 1/3 of the class I was in did so. A few are studying econ now. Probably a couple in finance, but I'm not sure. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586191) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:16 PM Author: heady public bath deer antler Did you ever take the AHSME or AMC 12 in high school? What was your score? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586215) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:17 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church I'd rather not say, d00der. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586218) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:17 PM Author: Pungent pozpig what's the grade distribution like? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586216) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:19 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church I dropped out of school about a month into the semester, so I'm not certain, but I think most kids get an A. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586222) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:24 PM Author: Odious jet striped hyena market dropped out of school???
do you have AIM? |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:31 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church I went to school very young and I probably wasn't fully prepared for it. A few weeks into my first semester my sister was killed and I never really recovered, so I dropped out. I went back two years later.
I don't use AIM anymore, d00d. Email? |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:36 PM Author: Odious jet striped hyena market what's yours? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586277) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:43 PM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586305) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:02 PM Author: Odious jet striped hyena market no? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586382) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 9:53 PM Author: Ungodly maroon coldplay fan math is very very difficult. that is all i know about math beyond how to do basic calculus arithmetic. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586343) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:28 PM Author: magenta aromatic garrison Are there any optional essays one can do for Harvard? Also, do they have a limit as far as PS legnth is concerned? And if so, what is it?
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Date: December 24th, 2008 10:59 PM Author: heady public bath deer antler Here's another good article about Math 55 from the Harvard Crimson:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=516216 |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:04 AM Author: razzle lay ty, v interesting (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586871) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:11 PM Author: Racy Erotic Prole lulz liquid swords.
"I DON'T GET WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE DIFFICULT ABOUT THIS CLASS. I took QUANTUM FUCKING MECHANICS at San Francisco State and didn't know a single person who took the Putnam so clearly I'm qualified to comment!"
You just don't get it, dude. These guys are freaks (I knew a couple of people who took 55) and they struggle. It's not your Calc II class that you took at some CC. They cover the material in completely different ways. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:14 PM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair, no one wants to be these guys. These guys may be smart as hell and dedicate their lives to math but that's pretty gay. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586723) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:17 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza I can't believe I got sucked into this. He's also claiming that the putnam would be straightforward if he had a bit more time. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:19 PM Author: Racy Erotic Prole If you read back through his posts it's clear that he's one of those "you learn the same stuff no matter where you go to college!" trolls with a vested interest in believing that he's just as smart as kids who went to Harvard because he managed to struggle through QUANTUM MECHANICS somewhere. And that he's clueless. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586732) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:21 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I never said you learn the same stuff everywhere. Before korean hot sauce edited his post, it was clear what level of schools we were discussing. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586737) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:23 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza once again - I don't see how you could have gone to a top school without knowing anyone who took the putnam. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586740) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:26 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I knew one other the person's name in my physics graduating class. I rarely went to class nor did I hang out with these people. I'm sure people took the putnam, I don't know anyone who did. But I do know a lot of extremely brilliant people including my friend who is finishing his phd in math right now at a top school who didn't take it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586749) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:31 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza assuming you truly went to MIT and majored in math, here's a statement that is true with P>0.9 in any given year: of the top 20 math students at mit, >=15 of them take the putnam (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586765) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:23 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza and it's thai hot sauce. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586742) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:17 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig My qualifications are above. I didn't say it wasn't a tough class you douchebag. I said it is in no way, shape or form more challenging then graduate level math, nor upperlevel UG classes at a good school.
Edit: The class is hard because these kids are freshmen, and most of them self-taught themselves math to this point. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:20 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza what are your qualifications? I'm not going to try to disparage you based on them, I'm just curious how someone who's done a reasonable amount of math may think the putnam is straightforward without being gabriel carroll or reid barton. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586736) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:23 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig The school you called yours equivalent too with the same majors. I never called the Putnam straightforward, just not a great indicator of who the best minds are. I'm not claiming I'd place in the top50 of it, certainly not as a freshman. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586741) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:24 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza you went to MIT, majored in math and you didn't meet anyone who took the putnam? that's got to be flame. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586747) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:30 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'm sure the copious amounts of asian kids and other strivers in did, I just don't know them. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586760) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:39 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza what year did you graduate? you can give a range if you like. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586778) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:42 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No thanks, way to much info on this board already. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586787) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:44 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza how many math majors in your graduating class did you know? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586793) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:48 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig About 3, and the 4 of us were not the superstars of the class. I think you are thinking I'm claiming that this harvard class is a joke. I couldn't have done it as a freshman. The only thing I've claimed is that this class is not phd level work, nor work that an upperlevel math major couldn't do.
Edit: I'll cave in on the putnam shit. Maybe I just don't know enough about it and I'm sick of arguing about it. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:50 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'll clarify my previous statement, wrt 55: most students who end up as math phds couldn't do it their freshman year. also, most math majors at mit would have problems with it, even as seniors. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586813) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:54 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Fair enough. That is what I've been saying all along, the impressive thing is that these kids are freshmen. Also, I didn't go to MIT, but something on that level, I'm paranoid of being outted. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586824) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:56 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza still, wrt your statement that an undergrad physics class would be harder, i disagree. I doubt any physics class aimed at undergrads in the country is as difficult (in the sense of requiring mathematical brilliance). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586831) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:58 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I had a choice of 2 QM classes (one called "baby QM" which was really normal QM, and the other was a mix of UG and Grad students). I think this is fairly common at the higher levels of most hard science disciplines. I know thermo was the same way too, although i was in law school by then so I took the baby one realizing I wasn't going to grad school anymore. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586837) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:02 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza - how would the mixed class work? you can't have a qm class that starts with the basics yet integrates physics phd students. - you took thermo senior year? as a physics major? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:07 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig You were expected to teach yourself a lot, including the math. Thermal was a 400 level class, I'm pretty sure everyone took it as a senior.
Edit: I def know I took it senior year. Maybe it wasn't a 400 level class, but I'm pretty sure thats when people took it. Is that strange? I'm going through other websites now. Seems like thermal is a senior year class at harvard too.
I also think the class was for grad students who had to fulfill a requirement but didn't need to really get into the material for whatever they were focusing on. More like a review class. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:16 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza ok - fair enough gnite |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:48 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza it is in fact a good indicator of the best minds. you might want to take a look at the putnam fellows through the decades and check out what they are doing now. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586806) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:24 PM Author: godawful sadistic digit ratio school lol at people who think any freshman level class is all that hard, plus H is not exactly where the best math minds go. 50% of people drop out of the orgo classes at H too, but I wouldnt call the material they cover any different from the crap they teach at in an orgo class at Fresno State. Math and science weed out lazy people and there is nothing more to it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586743) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:28 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Actually Orgo varies. I have a friend who went to PSU, the orgo class is a joke - pure memorization. The reason this harvard class is hard is because it compresses a lot of material into a shorter time. Not because the material is that much harder. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586756) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:31 PM Author: Onyx floppy locus stock car have at it:
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic92739.files/ps9.pdf |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:33 PM Author: godawful sadistic digit ratio school I'm a third year associate, I dont even remember how to solve quadratic equations. My math skills have degenerated to the level of a 6th grader. Law school rots the brain.
I used to be a chemist before I went all stupid. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:35 PM Author: French trailer park christ... (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586770) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:36 PM Author: godawful sadistic digit ratio school its a proof heavy class and some people just cant do proofs, but come on, number 2 is a vector space problem, that is not PhD level work. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586772) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:37 PM Author: French trailer park you're literally retarded (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586774) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:37 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What do you not understand about this? The impressive thing is that these kids are doing it as freshmen, not that they can do it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586773) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:41 PM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair, that assignment just called me a homo.
Anyways the answer is 7. |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:50 PM Author: judgmental station i thought i took advanced math classes in high school so i don't get where, as a freshman, you would learn the notation used in these problems, let alone a strategy to solve this shit, let alone the right answer with 3 hours of class time a week.
i'm just ignorant. were these kids like going to math camp and shit? |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:52 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Self-taught, summer classes, and other various methods. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586817) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:03 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig This was part of my putnam argument. Some of the great minds develop later b/c they can't afford to or don't go to these summer classes nor is their a college near their house where they can take classes to replace HS math. No one at my HS did this, yet one is now at the top of the game. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586857) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:15 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater You don't need to take classes in order to learn math. All you need is a set of good books. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587306) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:18 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I don't see how that contradicts my statement. Book don't magically appear. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587319) |
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Date: December 24th, 2008 11:45 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What are these completely different ways you speak of? Is it all done in a made up space language? Has Harvard been keeping secret the true way to do math? Or is it that they struggle because they are taking the class their first year of college? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586796) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:30 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse It might be a tough and very rigorous first year class but it's still only a first year class designed for people coming from HS with HS level math.
A third year pure math class that assumes two solid years of undergrad advanced math as the baseline will be more challenging. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:34 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No its not. Its designed for first year students who either self-taught or took college math while in HS (edit: and I don't mean AP classes). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586982) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:38 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse Does it cover advanced algebra - groups, rings and fields, galois theory etc, as well as complex analysis, number theory, and transfinite arithmetic?
No amount of advanced HS study or self-study is the equivalent of two years solid advanced math at a university prestigious for its math courses.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:38 AM Author: supple hilarious hall read the problem set. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586998) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:39 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I made this exact point above. I even mentioned rings and galois. No it doesn't cover them. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587002) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:44 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse I like algebra best - I did a third year research paper on automorphism towers - but I didn't even get to rings and fields till third year, second year was intro to groups and then third year was more advanced group theory, rings and fields and then galois theory and the solvability of polynomials. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587026) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:45 AM Author: supple hilarious hall well, you can look at all 12 problem sets from the first semester of math 55:
http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic92739.files/ps12.pdf
this is set 12. just change the number in the URL after 'ps' to the relevant number. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:58 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse Glancing at them, and bear in mind I am a bit drunk, they seem to be focused on first/second year analysis and linear algebra. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587077) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:20 PM Author: bright alcoholic roast beef dragon "(a) Write down 5 of your favorite differential equations and find the corresponding vector field v(t, x) for them."
*hangs head in shame for not having favorite differential equations* |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:27 AM Author: Slap-happy Smoky Ticket Booth hawt (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587193) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:39 AM Author: razzle lay the class is a 4 yr undergrad curriculum compressed into one yr (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587003) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:40 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No, it isn't. Harvard claims it is and claims it is by far the hardest UG math class. Its more like 2.5 years years compressed, but not 4 if you look at MIT, CIT, or even fucking Lafayette. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587011) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:42 AM Author: razzle lay pls solve problem set above pensive (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587015) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:43 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Way to come into this thread late. I'm not pensive, if you look at other threads I post in. And what does me being able to solve them many years removed from doing any math but law & econ have anything to do with what the course covers? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587023) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:55 AM Author: razzle lay "any math but law & econ"
LOLULUOUWOLUSLUASLDFJN |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:56 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig anything but... Oh noes a typo at 1 in the morning. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587068) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:00 AM Author: razzle lay LUL @ idea that law & econ = math (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587086) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:01 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'm pretty sure my statement made it clearly that my math skills suck these days because law & econ hardly counts as doing math. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587092) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:11 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site you're just pretending to be this dumb, right? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587120) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:15 AM Author: razzle lay Half of Math 55 @ Harvard = Jewish (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587147) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:54 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza interesting comparison (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587059) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:58 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig What is? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587076) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:03 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater "Does it cover advanced algebra - groups, rings and fields, galois theory etc, as well as complex analysis, number theory, and transfinite arithmetic?"
It's an analysis and linear algebra course. It covers analysis and linear algebra.
But the subject matter is not really what's special about the class. The difficulty of the problems is. In my honors class (which the professor claimed to be harder than math 55) we got unsolved problems every week mixed into our problem sets.
"No amount of advanced HS study or self-study is the equivalent of two years solid advanced math at a university prestigious for its math courses."
This is complete bullshit. I had self-studied way beyond the college level before I entered college. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:34 AM Author: supple hilarious hall "but it's still only a first year class designed for people coming from HS with HS level math."
no |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:38 AM Author: razzle lay FAIL (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586997) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:49 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site lul, nice completely uneducated comment about the subject. just say you want to discuss your halcyon days majoring in math at michigan or wherever, nobody will be mad. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587053) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:53 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse Is Michigan prestigious for math? I went somewhere known for its math courses but I don't have to be a wanker about my first year accomplishments to prove I was good at math. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587057) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:02 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site lolwut? 'known for its math courses?' i picked an unprestigious public because you clearly didn't know anything about 55 when you got into the thread, and it's familiar to most elite math people.
i'm just teasing you dude - you're known on the board for loving to indirectly discuss your prestige/intelligence/success, so digging at your pride is easy.
and wanker? the anglophelia in your writing is always amusing. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:06 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle meetinghouse ...and it's familiar to most elite math people. --------------------------------------------------------
I think you mean, familiar to most American elite math people.
I'm reading the course guide for 55 now, its interesting to see what it does and doesn't cover.
I'm moderately proud of my math accomplishments, especially being of the female persuasion, but if I thought I was truly good at math I'd be doing that instead of law. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:12 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site are you saying you're actually a brit? that would explain a lot (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587135) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:22 AM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Yeah, as long as you've seen the chain rule you're good to go, amirite? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587330) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:31 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site that class is supposed to be truly miserable, but lol at anyone suggesting that harvard has even close to a lion's share of the best math minds every year based on fucking putnam scores. more like the most hard-striving kids who are prone to entering putnam because academic competition is a way of life for them. math at harvard is like english at mit - good for you, but you're not fooling anybody. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586973) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:32 AM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair,
The only 180 post in this thread. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:33 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Well, I'm glad someone else backed me up on harvard and math and especially the putnam. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10586979) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:41 AM Author: razzle lay you have TTT reasoning skills
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:44 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig This has already been debated. I don't agree with the putnam reasoning that it shows the best - I think it is more equivalent to mock trial comps where the brightest law students don't even compete. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587029) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:48 AM Author: Racy Erotic Prole The Putnam is nothing like Mock Trial. This is the most moronic comparison I have ever heard in my life and I don't understand why you keep making it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587046) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:48 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm back, and you're simply incorrect. check the history of putnam fellows. some names may be familiar. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:58 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site so because some of the most brilliant have taken it, then usually a majority of the most brilliant take it? genius!
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:03 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza this response was to claim that putnam was not a good judge of talent. in that case, most putnam high scorers would end up mediocre. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587100) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:33 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site now we're in relative argument territory - maybe i'm confused, but i thought you were arguing that putnam attracts not just talented people, but a cross-section of the brightest minds every year, thus demonstrating that harvard actually has a disproportionate number of them rather than just an emphasis on putnam.
and, we could easily say that of math scholars at elite programs, most people even above the median in capability are going to be very successful. in theory, putnam could attract mostly just kids who are operating at the top 25th percentile but not above the 10th in a given year, and go on to be successful. this would seem to validate your point except that there are still quite a few much more talented people who didn't bother with it.
you can prove anything with the type of speculations you're making. putnam people doing well still =/= putnam always attracts the very best. we just know they're pretty good. harvard math is just fine, but evaluating based purely on the turnout for the nerd bowl doesn't really make the ultimate comment on the total quality of the department. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:36 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i did make that argument. however, the post above was not to bolster that argument. it was to counter the claim that putnam was not a good judge of talent.
next, looking at the list of putnam fellows suggests strongly that these are not the 10-25 percentile of math students at top undergrad programs, or even top phd prgrams |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:38 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I think I didn't make myself clear then. I didn't mean to insinuate that winning the competition doesn't show you have talent. I was trying to say that their are tons of talented people who don't even take it (although I think you disagree with me on this too). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587216) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:39 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza ok i think this thread is played out i'm embarrassed at posting so much |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:42 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Agreed. I think I've posted a total of 10 times before this thread. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587228) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:40 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site "their are tons of talented people who don't even take it"
thank you. this is the salient point. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:41 AM Author: Ungodly maroon coldplay fan math can be a passion, and if you are in math 55 at harvard, and surviving the course, i think it can only mean you are passionate about math to such an extent that it doesnt matter than you started off as a striver. even mozart began as a performing monkey. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587013) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:44 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site wtf does that have to do with my point? and somebody already pointed out an important fact which is that it's a legendary course and half the dudes just sign up to say they were in there for a week. on top of that, your aptitude may not be proportional to work ethic and/or tolerance for the other people you're in there with. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587028) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:54 AM Author: razzle lay you're the sort of faggot that thinks hyp/hys people only got where they were bc they could "afford" to take an sat/lsat prep course
if that makes your ttt degree more palatable, then great...the real question is if you're so advanced, why didn't you do better? shouldnt standardized tests be a breeze for a genius like you? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:18 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site wtf are you talking about? was this supposed to go under a different post? how does this address my comments in any way and how drunk are you?
my post pointed out that he was basically non-sequitur when he started ranting about passion and developing over time or whatever, and also that 55 isn't really a reliable gauge of 'passion' in the first place.
where the fuck are you getting ideas about what i think of standardized testing from? you couldn't be more wrong about all of your toolish assumptions about me, by the way. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:30 AM Author: Twinkling Step-uncle's House Fat Ankles To be fair,
lolwut |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:47 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza you have no clue what you're talking about. harvard doesn't have a majority of the math talent in each cohort, but 1/4 might be a reasonable guess - mit + harvard together come close to getting half the top 50 scores in each years putnam.
also, the top students do take the putnam. not all, but most do. I don't know anyone truly good in math (in the sense of math professor at mit caliber) who didn't take it at least once. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:57 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site this is hilarious. i love the harvard trolling though dude, nothing wrong with a little crimson pride.
"harvard doesn't have a majority of the math talent in each cohort"
no shit
"but 1/4 might be a reasonable guess"
explain why
"also, the top students do take the putnam. not all, but most do"
how could you possibly know this?
"I don't know anyone truly good in math (in the sense of math professor at mit caliber) who didn't take it at least once"
oh i see, never mind. just take your limited personal experience with the math environment at one school where we've already established that there is a big emphasis on putnam and assume it applies to all the finest math students in the country. makes perfect sense to me.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:00 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Let's not forget the putnam is only open to American and Canadian students. When foreign students come over here for the grad programs, it makes all american ug math programs look like they taught nothing. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587087) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:02 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza afaik, most top foreign students already come to the US for undergrad. harvard/mit/caltech etc basically pay for them to come. for example, if the info is available online, check out the chinese math olympians and where they went to college. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587095) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:05 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig That's just bullshit, the majority, let alone "most," do not come here for UG. And what is with you and math competitions. I can understand your argument for the Putnam, but fucking math olympians determining the best math minds, are you fucking kidding me? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587104) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:07 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm no math competition booster, but IMO is basically the best gauge of math talent at high school level, which is why I use it in the post above. any alternative metric in mind? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587108) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:10 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No, it may be the best gauge but that doesn't make it a good gauge. At my HS the people who did it were the people who wanted to pad their resumes. The two kids that I can point two and say were and still all (based on their PhD work) math geniuses, didn't do it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587116) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:12 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza your high school had majority of students who participated in the IMO? highly unlikely. i'm not talking about random high school math comps. figure out the chinese intl math olympiad selection process 1st. but it's true - theres not great gauge at the high school level, and many IMO successes end up doing badly at phd level math. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:15 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig My highschool had over 4500 students. Shit was bigger than some liberal arts colleges. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587146) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:18 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza let me get this straight: your school had multiple students who participated in the international math olympiad? note that 6 students take part from the US every year, which means that your school is easily identifiable. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587155) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:21 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig You never said international dude. All you said was math olympiad. Since there are more students in the 55 class, I assume being an international olympiad is not required to succeed in the the class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587167) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:23 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza ok (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587179) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:24 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Edited my post, the typo made it come across as snarky. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587187) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:24 AM Author: razzle lay lolpwn3d (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587186) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:26 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig At first I thought you were mad that someone thought harvard wasn't the best, now I realize you aren't smart enough to have gone there. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587190) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:34 AM Author: razzle lay (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587209) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:42 AM Author: Pale puppy native This liquidswords fool should be banned from this forum for posting utter BS. He might as well name his high school since he's claiming two IMO winners and a size over 4500. He probably doesn't even know what the IMO is.
By the way, it's true some ppl don't do the Putnam since it's not real research so they view it as a waste of time. Still, most of the top ppl in math take part because it's a rite of passage (I actually talked to PRL--I'll let you figure out the initials). |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:46 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Hi Po-Ru Loh! (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587881) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:15 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig You have trouble following a thread? I think I already stated that the IMO wasn't what we were originally discussing.
Date: December 25th, 2008 1:21 AM Author: Liquid Swords (I drop megaton BOMBS more faster than you blink)
You never said international dude. All you said was math olympiad |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:24 PM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Well whatever you're trying to prove, please just give up. Even if you were right, it would just be accidental, because you have no idea what you're talking about. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588123) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:27 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'm not trying to prove anything. I've already stated I could have never done this class. You and a couple other people seem to try to bash me to fellate their own self-worth. I find it hilarious and I'll let you keep arguing a point since apparently rational minds can't disagree on this one. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588127) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:29 PM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater I am always keen on fellating my own self-worth. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588129) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:31 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig *Psychoanalyzes* You are also a math phd student who participated in all this. That's why it is so important that you defend it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588134) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:35 PM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Close enough. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588144) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:38 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I have no ill will, I tried to end this convo long ago before other people jumped in. I thought we had basically concluded we know very different people - you know people who were good at math and want to get their phd/be professors, and I know people who were good who want to parlay that into a profession like finance or another discipline. I mean, lets not pretend chemistry and physics don't become nothing more than applied math after orgo, and through grad work. Reminds me of my favorite comic -- http://xkcd.com/435/ (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588149) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:44 PM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Ahaha! Thanks for that comic. My prof will love it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588157) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:45 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig You are welcome, if you don't have an RSS feed setup for xkcd, I highly recommend it. Check out the archives, I think you'll enjoy his work. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588165) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:10 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza also - i am reasonably confident of my assertion that most of the top math talent is already in the US for undergrad, but i can stand to be corrected by hard data (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587117) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:12 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'm reasonably confident in my assertion too. Neither of us will find hard data, especially about highschoolers from China and India. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587133) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:16 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza once again, i think the difference is that I know far more of the type of people we are discussing than you do. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587149) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:19 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Or we are talking about different people. I'm talking about kids who are smart enough to take this harvard math class, or go to a good UG for math, or go to a good PhD program. You are talking about the top academics in the country. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587160) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:21 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza fair enough. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587165) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:00 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i didn't go to harvard i do know enough math undergrads and phds from harvard/mit/cit/stanford/etc to make these inferences. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:03 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'm just curious how you have such an extended network of mathematicians. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587101) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:05 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza being as vague as possible, i'm an academic. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587102) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:07 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I have a feeling thats why you have this perception of the Putnam. I have a feeling people likely to become academics are more into these competitions. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587106) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:08 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm not into these competitions. but i do have beliefs about their efficacy for sorting math ability. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:10 PM Author: Elite temple (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588430) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:33 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza nope (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588680) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:41 PM Author: Elite temple Dang. TY anyhow. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588698) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:10 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site sorry dude, you're still claiming that you have some unattainable level of knowledge about how all the best math minds of every class year choose to apply themselves. you just keep expanding the scope:
hot sauce:"all the smart guys i know did putnam, so it's obviously the case across the board"
cool and smart guy: "not really"
hot sauce: "oh wait, uh, well i know like smart guys from ALL the top math programs, with PhDs even, like a bunch of 'em - we all hang out all the time and stuff - and they uh, all like did it, so in fact my anecdotal selection is clearly representative of the truth."
sorry dude, but based on the boneheaded arguments you're putting forth in this thread, i find it slightly hard to buy the fact that you're sitting around with a cadre of the most elite math PhD's in the country all the time, not that it improves your argument any unless you know a a large number of them from multiple class years and are certain they actually are the brightest individuals, but you get a gold star for effort, k? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:15 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i do. acquaint yourself with how dense academic networks are across schools, and you'll understand how it's not just possible but probable. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:17 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig So you are a math professor who decided to post on the xoxo law board? I'm just really confused. I have a feeling we don't hang out with the same crowd, and prolly have very different perceptions on this shit. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587151) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:22 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm not a math prof. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587173) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:27 AM Author: Spectacular angry yarmulke site that's what i'm wondering about. i feel duder might be a grad student and is sort of projecting his general perception here, but i find myself rapidly caring less and less.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:34 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Yeah, I'm pretty bored with this. It all seems to come down to whether we are talking about the absolute very best mathematicians or just people who are good enough to take this class. Some of the people who take that class went on to be quants at i-banks or science majors, hence, they prolly never took the Putnam. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587210) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:45 AM Author: Pale puppy native More BS. If you're going to name a firm for a prospective quant, it would obviously be DE S. or Jane St C or Rentech (HF, not ibanking). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587880) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:18 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Shit, I'm sure no math major from Harvard ever went to an ibank to do some modeling. All must work at hedge funds, especially as their first job out of school.
I said "Some of the people." Not all, not a majority, some.
"If you're going to name a firm for a prospective quant" - I didn't name a firm. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:51 AM Author: out-of-control lilac faggot firefighter hospital math is for fags. thread closed. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587054) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:35 PM Author: startled pearl box office hairy legs TIOCTCR.
How is "Who's frosh class is harder?" material for a thread? Lib arts majors wouldn't argue about this, they'd get laid, rather than engaging in some sort of weird masochistic masturbation.
"Oh I learned the X problem sets, but I had to flay myself while doing it so it was more preftigious."
Jesus, and here I thought college was about learning, not about how difficult you can make an intro class, which just seems absurd to me. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:19 PM Author: Elite temple 55 is not a "frosh class." Holy shit. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588443) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:20 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Yes it is, it is taken by freshmen. That doesn't mean it isn't insane compared to freshmen calc at other schools. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588447) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:19 PM Author: Elite temple That doesn't make it a "frosh class."
It is a special math class for people with very unusual talents and backgrounds, and many of those drop it because they can't hack it. Comparing it to Frosh Math 101 at Buttfuck State is beyond retarded. The main point of a class like 55 is to select for people likely to succeed in physics and math research at the international level.
It has literally nothing in common with freshman calc other than the fact that both are taken by 18 year olds. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:22 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig "That doesn't mean it isn't insane compared to freshmen calc at other schools."
Nice edit. No one said it was comparable to calc. But a class taken by freshmen is a freshmen class. Maybe we can say it is a special-frosh class. I can say most students can't hack chem101, but it is still a freshmen class. I can say optics is harder then any liberal arts sophomore year class, but it is still a sophomore course. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:24 PM Author: Elite temple "It has literally nothing in common with freshman calc other than the fact that both are taken by 18 year olds."
If your point is that freshmen take it... congratulations, that's fucking profound, man. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:27 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig So your arguing that this may be the hardest frosh class in the country? Dood, not a single person in the thread disagrees with you. That's not profound. Did you think we have no clue what this class is, did you not read the thread, did you not see the problem sets that were posted? Or are you worried about your ego? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588651) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:31 PM Author: Elite temple blackening seems not to get that it is not a "frosh class," ie an entry-level class. It's equivalent to upper division at most places just in terms of material covered, not to say depth and rigor of coverage. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588672) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:33 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Uhh, he was saying this whole thread is fucking stupid, and it was worthless arguing. ESL? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588681) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:40 PM Author: Elite temple The two aren't exclusive. He thought the thread wasn't worth arguing because he thought that math courses were roughly comparable across schools, like liberal arts courses, and thus not worth arguing about. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588696) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:43 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No, he thinks the whole premise about arguing over classes is stupid. English dood, learn it. See that part about not being material for a thread and now other majors wouldnt even care?
How is "Who's frosh class is harder?" material for a thread? Lib arts majors wouldn't argue about this, they'd get laid, rather than engaging in some sort of weird masochistic masturbation.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:38 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza here is a point of disagreement, amongst others you think that your qm class is harder, in some sense, than 55. I don't think it is, in the following sense: a given student who has taken your qm class will find 55 much harder than your qm class, even if he takes it after the qm class.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:39 PM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater 100% true. QM is a joke class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588692) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:41 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Yeah, that is one point of disagreement, but QM is not a freshmen class at any school. We were arguing this point. Most other people in this thread are arguing whether 55 is hard, the hardest, whether they should be given a blowjob for attending the same school as people who took 55 etc.
Another legitimate discussion is how many avg seniors or grad students (is avg meaning avg among MIT students or avg for the country) would struggle. But this is also not being discussed.
Edit: You could also say a 55 student would find Qm tougher since it is applied math and you need to know something about it to do the math. Neither person could do either by just walking into the class with a pure 55 background or a pure QM background. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:49 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i wasn't assuming it was a freshman class. As long as it was a class that, say, 10% of physics undergraduates at your school were capable of handling, it would be easier than 55.
part of why people are piling on you in this thread is your contention, after taking a look at the problem, that the putnam and the 55 problem sets were doable by you - in a week, if I recall your claim. My inference is that this reflects a lack of mathematical sophistication on your part. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:52 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Your telling me that you couldn't do one of those 55 problem sets in a week? I made it clear not now, but your saying that at the end of your 4 UG years you couldn't do them? I'm not claiming you need to get a 100%, because the kids in 55 don't either. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588748) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:56 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i won't make any claims for myself.
but to do well in 55, to some extent it doesn't matter how much mathematical sophistication you have - a great deal of it comes down to raw talent. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:58 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Answer the question dood. You've made yourself out to be a phd student rubbing shoulders and working with some of the brightest academic minds in the country. You are saying you couldn't do a 55 problem set in a week?
Edit: Sophistication vs. raw talent? I'm not sure what you are getting at. You need a certain level of raw talent to progress your level of sophistication, and more talent means you can do it quicker. But raw talent doesn't answer questions. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:00 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i'm not making any claims for myself. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588785) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:02 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Also remember these kids are learning it as they do it. I find it hard to believe that someone with your talent couldn't learn the pieces they need to as they work on it over the week. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588794) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:06 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i think your disbelief is misguided. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588807) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:02 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza your edit is consistent with my claim. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588793) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:07 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Lol, that's what I've been saying all along. The impressive things are these kids are freshmen. The kids who complete this class have more potential then I did. However, that doesn't mean that given the extra 4 years I had to develop, I couldn't do 55. This work isn't beyond my max ability, its just these kids have a higher potential and they learn it much quicker (kind of goes hand in hand).
Remember, this is also xoxo. When we talk about the avg law student we are talking about MVP or the median at CCN. We don't say avg is median at Wayne State or whatever is halfway down the rankings. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:10 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza no - i claim (without being close to certain - you might simply have been too lazy to look at the problems carefully) that this is beyond your max ability given 4 years of undergraduate study. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588825) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:12 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Hard to say, maybe I'm overestimating my abilities. The only way to resolve that is to spend some time shaking the rust off and then seeing if I can do a set within a week (maybe I'm just not seeing how intricate some of it is). But since I'm busy, I don't really have time to do this. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588834) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:15 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza cool (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588849) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:16 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Missed it before you edited it. Do again. Edit: Nope, I'm in law school these days. I do have a buddy who went there for UG. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:20 PM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza alright i was curious about why you referred to it earlier |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:25 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Like I was mentioning, everything is relative on this board. They have a very good math program. I think you read it as a put down. Its not like we are discussing penn state's math program here. It's like how people say Virgina Law is TTT, compared to Yale yeah, but its still leaps and bounds above Penn State. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588907) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 1:59 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater This thread has an enormous amount of ignorant and bad posts. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587258) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:00 AM Author: Ungodly maroon coldplay fan which side are you on? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587259) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:03 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater sriracha knows what's up. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587266) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:07 AM Author: Ungodly maroon coldplay fan ty. i find it hard to believe that people who supposedly have taken higher math cannot fathom how a course that has *merely* linear algebra and analysis as its topics can actually be more rigorous and abstract than an average upper level math course at a top college. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587274) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:09 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig The problem sets are all online. Are they harder then what you'd learn in an average class, certainly. Is it impressive that the kids are doing this as freshmen, certainly. But I just don't understand the claim that seniors at MIT or phd math students couldn't do it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587286) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:14 AM Author: razzle lay link to said claim? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587301) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:16 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Isn't that what this whole thread is about? I don't think anyone claimed this isn't an impressive class. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587308) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:16 AM Author: razzle lay oh, so nobody really said that? got it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587312) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:20 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig Wow you're fucking stupid. Now go read the rest of the thread
Reply
Date: December 24th, 2008 11:50 PM Author: sriracha
i'll clarify my previous statement, wrt 55: most students who end up as math phds couldn't do it their freshman year. also, most math majors at mit would have problems with it, even as seniors.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:17 AM Author: Sepia mental disorder library I couldn't hack a 1st grade arithmetic class that had 24-60 hours of homework per week - I'd drop out in a week. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587315) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:25 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Most students of any kind would experience difficulty in the class, including average MIT seniors and average phd students. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587339) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:28 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No fucking really. The students in the class struggle with it too. That's why I said it is impressive as freshmen, but not lets pretend that this is so complicated that the students who take it are math prodigies nor that it represents the hardest math done at an UG level. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587354) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:30 AM Author: razzle lay go real slow like and see if you can spot the leap here:
"most math majors at mit would have problems with it, even as seniors."
"But I just don't understand the claim that seniors at MIT or phd math students couldn't do it."
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:32 AM Author: ruddy rigor codepig He was correcting his earlier statement containing couldn't. There is plenty of shit in this thread that either implies that this class is beyond everyone but these students.
The amount of editing in this thread makes it hard to quote without reading it from top to bottom. Then again, I'm not sure you have any clue what is going on. You've neither said anything intelligent nor funny. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:28 AM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church troof for undergrads at least (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587355) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 2:24 AM Author: soggy contagious factory reset button church Whoa, this thread blew the fuck up.
Also, sriracha = CarbWithCheese
*looks around for bor*
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Date: December 25th, 2008 8:40 AM Author: shimmering background story I have never seen so many nerds having the nerd equivalent of a big dick competition. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587933) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 8:45 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Got a problem pal??! (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587936) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 9:01 AM Author: Bull headed ocher plaza i am proud to have contributed to this clusterfuck
merry xmas, dorks |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 9:32 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Thanks! :o) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587947) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 9:35 AM Author: duck-like gold nursing home volcanic crater Jews are the shit. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10587948) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 12:05 PM Author: judgmental station this thread has inspired me to learn math. how long will it take for me to self study to the math 55 level starting from kindergarten math?
also what books to buy? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:46 PM Author: Olive talented theater stage hunting ground credic
After reading this thread, Im not sure I could hack it in the CS program at GA Tech. |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:50 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig You could hack CS. I taught myself perl, c, c++, java, and proly could learn most languages quickly based of those. None of this math is necessary. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588739) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:19 PM Author: Olive talented theater stage hunting ground phew! thats a relief.
What if I wanted to do something like actuarial science? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:26 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig No fucking clue. But if you want to be indispensable in CS, learn some older mainframe programming languages like Fortran. The people who know them are getting old, and the young kids aren't learning them anymore since they opt for shit like java. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588917) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 3:51 PM Author: Cordovan location For the guys in this thread who are having a nerd-dick measuring contest, I hope your passion is pure.
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Date: December 25th, 2008 4:05 PM Author: Stimulating Stag Film I could probably handle this class pretty easily. I took precal at a CUNY and although I only got 70s on the tests the class average was about 35 so I finishedwith an A+. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10588803) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:12 PM Author: 180 stain How nerdy does it make me that I spent Christmas day reading this entire thread and enjoyed the experience? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10589090) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:23 PM Author: Snowy range This guy is a freak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_W._Barton |
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↗ Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/iamgay Date: December 25th, 2008 5:26 PM Author: rachmiel I didn't know you could post resumes on Wikipedia. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10589134) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:26 PM Author: heady public bath deer antler As is this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Carroll
I'm not sure which one is more intelligent. I wonder what their IQs are? |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:27 PM Author: Snowy range I did pretty well in the AMC contests in high school, but compared to Reid Barton, I'm a fucking retard.
One of my math professors mentioned him back when I was in college. He referred to him as the "most brilliant young mathematical mind of the last 30 years." |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:29 PM Author: heady public bath deer antler What kind of IQ do these guys have (Reid Barton, Gabriel Carroll)? 160? 180? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10589143) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:37 PM Author: Odious jet striped hyena market depends on the IQ examination dooder (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10589156) |
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Date: December 25th, 2008 5:28 PM Author: ruddy rigor codepig I'd say Reid, for the breadth of his brilliance. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#10589141) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 1:36 PM Author: Crawly patrolman messiness bump for interest (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#14645180) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 1:57 PM Author: citrine boltzmann mexican didnt realize NUWK had been poasting on xo this long (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=904997&forum_id=2#14645390) |