Human organizations are structured so as to be caste-like. No one questions any decision that makes an organisation more of a caste system. People would be shocked if an in-house Lawyer who chills, poasts, and makes $380k were reproached in any manner. Whereas, if Bellhops who make $380 a week were given a paid lunch, the CEO of J.W. Marriott would be raked over the coals at the next shareholder meeting.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073558)

But you know what really happens, to the extent that what you're saying occurs? The spurned redundant management pricks can easily job-hop into similar roles at other companies. HR/management will look at its worker bees and see nothing but losers incapable of being developed into any sort of "management" or ever receiving compensation greater than their current salary + a modest cost of living increase. Outside hires with similar pedigrees are afforded greater consideration and respect than ass-busting internal candidates YEARNING for a chance at the good life. By the time the internal candidate has licked enough boots to even be considered for any "promotion," everyone is disgusted with him and has lost any respect they once had.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073743)

Clique Law

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073841)

"They can and do go, but OFTEN, steps are taken to preserve their dignity that would not be taken with lower-level employees."

Bingo. They get severance and they get great references.

"Time to write your memoirs", for a biglaw partner, means "we're actually setting you up with a $250k advance", not "we're kicking you to the curb."

"Outside hires with similar pedigrees are afforded greater consideration and respect than ass-busting internal candidates YEARNING for a chance at the good life. By the time the internal candidate has licked enough boots to even be considered for any "promotion," everyone is disgusted with him and has lost any respect they once had."

Right. Very true. Tech is definitely this way. Startups tell early employees that they'll be executives, but the fact is that these startups always want "better" people as they grow. The early employees get fucked over.

What do you think happens to the pugnacious people who just tell the system to go fuck itself? Obviously, they get fired more often. Do they get some kind of grudging respect that eventually makes the case for them? Or do they just get thrown to the bottom and ignored? What if you're a Pensive type whose intellectual Betterness is obvious but who can't help himself from showing it off and drawing fire?

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073860)

*lights a candle for cowgod*

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073587)

In any unsophisticated system/archetype, for instance, feudalism, or the antebellum south, caste systems proliferate. When all we're talking about is cotton/potatoes, any association with Labour reduces one's status to such an extent that he is No One, and lives to be beaten down and oppressed by his betters.

The remuneration itself is representative of one's caste. It is the tribute that the caste system owes to each of its members for maintaining it. This is why it's impossible to get more than some pathetic 5% raise anywhere no matter what - to receive more is an affront to the caste system.

If the company you work for provides a commodity, like french fries, or cleaning shit out of septic tanks, or groceries, then you are a slave who exists only to enrich his betters, because that's how it has to be. Every bit of dignity afforded to the worker comes at the expense of management and its bureaucracy, and they will fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo. The Civil War was an example of this.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073692)

lol @ cynical XOers

obviously only trust fund babies and p00rs can do the above, but still

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073700)

As I "move up" in my company, and also as I stay longer and get "years" ahead of new hires on my level, I have more and more people to throw under the bus. Or if we hire someone and there's a task I hate, I can slowly move it to the "new guy" because it is a "good fit for their new role and I am over-burdened". It's great.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073714)

I'm not having new people clean poop, dude. I'm having them shuffle paper A instead of B. It's not keeping them in the office late on a Friday, that's for sure.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073755)

My old boss used to give me all of the work and just sit on his ass and review it. He gave me no credit for anything, didn't let me speak to clients and they tell me in meetings that I should talk more and I'd just immediately look at him and he would scramble like a little CUCK. Again, that's not the type of boss I want to be

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073778)

Your problem is with a hierarchy. I am not "on top" of the people as their boss. It's just seniority brings advantages. These "people" have no fucking clue I suggested to anyone that they shuffle papers B and C instead of me. And TBF, that's because I am now shuffling papers D and E which were not previously in my job.

I'm legit sorry about your boss. I've had those, too.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073791)

Once you go shitconsulting it's hard to move up but I'm trying

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074207)

There are exceptions. If you change industries, you can see higher pay but worse conditions or vice versa. For example, I'd rather be a $120k professor than a $150k lawyer.

$100k writer: absolute prestige.

$100k professor: not bad.

$100k in S Valley or Wall St: kill self.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073770)

100K suburban T3 city 20 hour a week of actual legal work shitlawyer vs NLJ 250 175K lawyer working 60 legit hours in an expensive city?

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073798)

So, BigLaw sucks but it puts you high on the prestige gradient and that means more options later. If you don't capitalize on those options, you're just fucked, but the likelihood is that most people will be better off having done BL than if they hadn't.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073835)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074901)

Like, take someone like Pensive. Everyone knows that he's smarter than all those fucks, but he pisses people off. The Betterness has to be an imperious Brahmin coolness, not the hot indignation of someone whose brain runs 300 percent faster than everyone else's and gets a chip on his shoulder.

This "Betterness" isn't about being smarter or harder working. It's just about a sense of intrinsic genetic superiority that people accept because they're not even aware that they got out-framed.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073818)

One has the thinnest job description I've ever seen yet overcommits and gets yelled at by his betters every time he does anything, although by my reckoning his work is of the highest quality I have ever seen. I think his father was an SSDI bro so upbringing was shot. Chip on his shoulder, unmanly, always talking about how he is amazing and others suck, and that he could do a better job than them.

One has the second thinnest job description I've ever seen. Chip on his shoulder, unmanly, always talking about he is amazing and others suck, but there is a SUBTLE difference that implies that the betterness is derived from others' inherent inferiority. He never implied he would do a better job, rather, he subtly implies that even doing ANY job at the task at hand is a mark of inferiority, and he has but no shame about doing nothing whatsoever, like Richie Rich badmouthing his servants or something.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073912)

I think your first bossprick is a Clueless. He generates recurring commitments and overperforms and that's why his bosses don't like him.

Your second one is a true-blue Sociopath. He wears hate on his sleeve but he hates people in a way that is subtle enough that, rather than reacting violently, they just accept it.

BTW I'm reading your 2015 post. It's more right than wrong, but you're completely off the mark about startup founder as a Nerd job. You have Jocks who are used for their 100-hour work ethic and you have Preps running the show.

You could cast some of this in RPG terms. Jocks are meat shields who take damage. Nerds are mages who need to be protected but are massively powerful with support.

What do you think of Pensive/MOC? Seems like an interesting case study, an obvious 150+ who combines the true-blue nerd believer mentality with a touch of troll sociopathy. He's like a combination of every clique. The arrogance of a Jock and Prep, the cerebralness of a Nerd, the bitterness of a Loser and Scumbag, etc.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33073947)

The Clique identifiers are readily apparent on phenotypic terms. A Jock is one who looks like a Jock, i.e. good at sports and lost his virginity before he got his driver's licence. I don't have any experience in tech but I can't imagine there are a ton of non-technical Jocks telling Nerds what to do, although I may be too optimistic.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074059)

I'd be curious to hear what you think of my RPG character class taxonomy.

Prep = Thief, but using social agility rather than dexterity.

Jock = Fighter. Meat shield. You hire him as a grunt and make him work 100 hours per week.

Nerd = Wizard. Extremely fragile but, if supported by a good party, incredibly fucking powerful.

Woman = Healer. Of course, some women are bitches and heal the enemies. Women have a different brand of wizardry. Women can be all of the other classes, but the effect of a beautiful woman is to heal.

Scumbag = Enemy Mook, like a goblin. Low stats, easy to kill. Can be fun to beat up on but pointless because they never stop coming.

Loser = NPC. Low stats. Boring.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074094)

The toad one is to draw trolls to my greatest internet rival

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074194)

LMAO

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33075005)

More often than not, in an overwhelming majority of cases, the promotion does. not. happen. If you ever get a true promotion, and encounter even the slightest resistance from the organisation, you should polish your resume and leave the Firm after "2 years, 1 month," or whatever. This is not the start of your career at the Firm, it is the end of it.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074004)

You never want to be seen as a boss-killer because no one trusts boss-killers. The person who benefits from (or is perceived to benefit from) a dead body is assumed to be the murderer, regardless of what's true.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074123)

Younger people, especially Millenials, are brainwashed to accept the idea of "Unpaid Internships" almost without question in numerous fields that have some sort of prestige attached to them. Advertising, Art, Creative work, Publishing but increasingly professional stuff like Law and Finance. This is symptomatic of a disconnect between what it means to "Work" and to derive "Meaningful Economic Benefit," otherwise known as "Getting Ahead" in society at large.

The reenfoeffment and Neo-Feudalism that has been created by Boomers is largely due to a period of absolute zero interest rates that has never occurred in the millennia when previous economic history has been written.

It has proven to be without a doubt is extremely corrosive to Private (and possibly Public) sector institutions that once were reliable and efficient in addition to providing good jobs for a larger swath of the population. Interest rates at near zero levels essentially mean that human labor (i.e condensed, commoditized units of labor known as money) is valued at "Zero," which provides fuel for Mass Migration/Globalization (i.e a race to the bottom in Labor input costs either through mass migration or intensive Automation)

As time has gone on, the Boomers who inherited their positions before the financial crisis have developed a sort of Neo-Noblesse Oblige about extending employment and work offers to younger people in the working world in the aftermath of the financial crisis.

These boomers inherited a world that they did nothing to create but will now fight with everything they have to preserve their positions for as long as possible in. I think what is most telling is that they have also grown increasingly aware of how irrelevant they are in the work environment now due to being helpless in front of most technology and they have also inverted the pyramid to the point where there are less and less underlings remaining they can use to prop them up. This is of course due to their desire to wring more money and power out of their failing institutions, as they have done little or anything to invest in the coming generations as their for-bearers did.

The boomers in power at these institutions basically exist to simply remain in power, and have long ago abandoned the hope of advancing their Firm or Company's future because in many industries it has become abundantly clear that most boomer dominated firms will eventually cease to exist, either through obsolescence or a revolt of their oppressed underlings. I think that if one were to look at the current 20-40 year old age demographic in most professions affected by Boomerism, there has not been a time when the ones who are responsible for creating and maintaining economic value have been so disproportionately compensated relative to the nominal figureheads since the Russian Revolution.

I think that as time and technological forces inevitably displace boomers once and for all, this will be hastened by the successive generations abandoning larger institutions in favor of smaller and more partnership/equitable labor arrangements and compensation structures in Law and Finance (as had existed before the 1980's or so)

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074375)

9 to 5 is way more chill than biglaw, like 20 to 40 times more chill

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33074500)

I know this is against prevailing wisdom, but so many people are incompetent that competent help is usually pretty valued in my experience. I do agree that doesn't translate to $ and internal people are going to get treated like shit as compared to external hires on salary.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33075022)

One, the central premise is that good work is not valued. In my experience it is, because it's rare. Particularly when the task involves some amount of judgment in determining the best way to get to a (sometimes ill-defined) end goal. Some people, even competent people, need a lot of hand holding and some people you can just say, please get from point A to point B and they'll more or less take care of it. People love working with the latter.

Two, is whether there are tangible benefits to being valued. I think there are in terms of better work, job security, treatment and investment by mentors etc. I grant that they don't get paid more and it's not an obvious line as to how they wind up with better life outcomes, but in my experience, they do.

I get this comes off as very pollyannaish and obviously the correlation between competence and good outcomes is rough, but does anyone not think it's there?

And I'm talking about a job where everyone is at least passably smart. The bar to stand out is much lower in a variety of other professions/jobs.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#33075136)

This is counter intuitive. You would expect that the less money something pays the easier it would be. Or perhaps it's less stressful. I have not found this to be always true, though it is true sometimes. Like take IT for instance. It allows me time to surf, poast, etc. Can you do that as a dollar general cashier?

This is true also btw for colleges. The more upper tier you are, the less cut throat it is. For instance the t14 I attended did not even have proper A,B,C grades. It was understood that once you were there, you were golden. Grades schmades. You'd get biglaw or something similar. Across town was a school that was ranked maybe in the top 50. Cut throat as hell.

I think what happens is that once you are accepted as having a certain IQ level via testing or interviewing, people generally leave you the fuck alone. On the other hand, once you have signaled to the world that you are low iq (by accepting a job at McD etc) or attending Cooley, people just shit on you more and more. The idea being that you are too low iq to even know that you are being excessively shat on.

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#35447767)

the skillset isn't that hard at top levels so when ur paying $500k to developers there is immense stress so they don't farm ur job away to some $200k 22 year old kid who is way faster and better.

meanwhile the loser IT type guy who can barely use SQL making $100k flat has almost no expectations and can hand in shitty code.

- source my cousin works at google

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#37741343)

1. Layoffs are bottom-up IRL

2. You are Ruined

(https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3584432&forum_id=2#39905769)