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Could average HYS law alum have gotten a top 10 math PhD?
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Date: September 14th, 2026 12:41 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone Assume a guy who got into HYS for law school. 3.95 GPA in English or Poli Sci. 176 LSAT with only a little studying.
He gets put in a time machine back to his first day of UG and studies math instead of humanities. What are the odds he can do well enough to get into a top 10 math PhD program? To graduate from it? To get a tenured math professor job?
Or, what portion of HYS students could have copped a top 10 math PhD if they had tried for that instead of law school? I assume the vast majority could have copped a top 10 humanities or social sciences PhD. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 4:59 PM Author: Beady-eyed station quadroon Getting into the top 10 PhD program is easily the biggest hurdle in that scenario. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135626) |
Date: September 14th, 2026 12:48 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake I think most people scoring 176 on the old lsat could have done a math undergrad degree. Probably 75-90% of them. But only a small percent of those could get into a top math phd. Maybe 5-10%. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135153) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 12:57 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone I agree that nearly all 176 scorers could get a math UG degree. That doesn't seem particularly challenging for someone who has the brainpower to score 176 (assuming no superstriver studying and extra time or anything), plus the ability to work hard enough to get a 3.95 GPA (in the humanaties, at least). You probably don't need to get into particular advanced and difficult-to-understand (for a 176-mo) classes and concepts just to meet UG requirements.
So why could only 5-10% get a top math PhD? What is separating them? Would they struggle to understand and "do" the higher level math? Assume they're willing to put in the time. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 1:41 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake Phd programs are selecting based on whether you are likely someone who is going to be able to produce novel academic research which is different than just being able to complete coursework. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135212) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 12:52 PM Author: awkward clown digit ratio i think it totally depends on the given student. for the median wordcel-brain-pwned hys student, no. for someone with innate mathematical ability, it seems reasonable. although, as a wordcel-brain-pwned idiot i suspect, but do not know, that beginning as a day one undergrad would be a late start for most t10 math phd aspirants. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135157) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 12:59 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake Most wordcels are not scoring a 176 on the old lsat though. Someone who gets 176 is generally capable of doing a UG degree in math provided they start freshman year. Of course some people who get 176 become irreversible wordcels from taking all humanities in undergrad and forgetting how to do anything else, but we are assuming they are starting out day one in undergrad again. Someone who scores 176 is smart enough to learn calculus, linear algebra, differential equations and real analysis. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135170) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 12:59 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone How far off are the wordcel brainmos from having the mental firepower for a math PhD? 176 is pretty intelligent, though it shows verbal and logical intelligence more so than spatial and math. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135171) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 1:07 PM Author: awkward clown digit ratio i don’t want to give too much heed to shitlib notions of “different intelligences,” but i still think there is a very real difference between verbal intelligence and mathematical intelligence. much of this divide can be glossed over in a standard iq test (depending on the format) and nearly all of it can be buried in the lsat. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135175) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 1:07 PM Author: fishy kink-friendly market ran here to say this. t10 math phds have been doing math competitions since middle school, and dealing with complex math problem solving that is on a total different level than math as is taught in school. being smart enough to get an A in ap calc in high school and then beginning to strive in math starting in college would put you way way way behind. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135174) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 1:35 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake That's why I said I think someone who gets a 176 can do a math UG if they started over freshman year, but thats not the same as being able to catch people who have already accumulated 5–10 years of unusually intense mathematical training. So probably unlikely they can become top phd level. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135208) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:08 PM Author: fishy kink-friendly market agreed. the avg 176 who was a straight-A student in high school and got 5's on all his APs and got into a top ug could certainly get thru a math UG with enough superstudying and ivy grade inflation. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135243) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 1:53 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone How much of the difference is (a) he would be behind because he wasn't doing math olympiad in HS or whatever vs. (b) the average 176 scorer with a 3.95 in English Lit just doesn't have the mental capacity to do top math PhD-level work? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135225) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:09 PM Author: fishy kink-friendly market cq, and i dunno (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135247) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:04 PM Author: Nofapping travel guidebook idiot I actually did this, lol. (PhD first then law degree). The answer is certainly yes, but I'm sure almost no one except for me would want to and motivation is the real barrier. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135236) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:10 PM Author: Hairraiser puce bawdyhouse love of her life I’m sure LOL is preferable on many levels to a decade or more of postdoc/adjunct hell
What area of law do you practice now? |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:17 PM Author: Nofapping travel guidebook idiot It really is. I don't practice law now -- business (like many/maybe even most of my law classmates seem to eventually as far as I can tell). In many ways, HYS is perfectly suited for a someone who is very academic and has a lot of varied intellectual interests. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135259) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:23 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone What's the type of business role? I'm beyond ready to leave law, but at this point, (1) it's reasonably lucratative, (2) it gives decent work life balance, and (3) there isn't an obvious place to jump onto the business side without taking a big hit to 1, 2, or both. Most likely both. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135269) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:40 PM Author: Nofapping travel guidebook idiot Trading and portfolio management--same job I could have had without the law school, but I still think law school is great. Work life balance is not good for me though. I would think hard before you take a hit to that. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135301) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:21 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone 180. What's your PhD in? Do you think there is a difference in the intellectual capacity/specific type of intellectual capacity between a 176 HYS lawmo and a top 10 math PhD candidate? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135265) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:46 PM Author: Nofapping travel guidebook idiot I should be careful about answering the first question because I would certainly dox myself in combination with my other posts. I will be back in a few hours, when I will give you a answer to your second question. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135310) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 4:47 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone Fair enough. How about, is it closer to something like (a) math or physics from a top 10 program or (b) statistics from a program outside the top 10? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135576) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 7:42 PM Author: Nofapping travel guidebook idiot pure math--top handful of programs (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135973) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 2:08 PM Author: adventurous shimmering home What would be the point? Have you ever met someone who introduced himself as a "mathematician"? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135244) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 4:51 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone See today's thread about OpenAI allegedly stealing some mathematicians' proof. This thread is about whether an intelligent lawmo could have done what those mathematicians are doing, if he had followed a different path. Or, is the type of intelligence that gets you to 176 different enough from the type of intelligence that lets someone do what the math profs are doing that an average HYS lawmo wouldn't have been able to do it if he tried. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135602) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 7:06 PM Author: awkward clown digit ratio regardless of the existence and extent of differences in kinds of intelligences, there is probably more difference between a solver of a millennium problem and a top ten phd program-mo than a top ten phd program-mo and a math major (at competitive ugs). (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135915) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:43 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake tbf, at this point if you are solving millennium problems your "name" is probably chat gpt (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50136377) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 5:04 PM Author: Alcoholic Sandwich Stage I’ve worked with two Big Math PhD/HYS Lawmo guys. One was a tax lawyer doing financial products stuff and the other was a waterfall and other economics specialist for PE and hedge funds. Both seemed to be making a killing as the go betweens for the quants and the wordcels. Palpable autism. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135637) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 5:07 PM Author: Tripping tantric parlour Obviously No for immutable hardware limitations, and a more interesting question is Why is math/spatial brain fat more rare than verbal/wordbabble brain? Despite the lopsidedness in utility.
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Date: September 14th, 2026 6:22 PM Author: Titillating embarrassed to the bone space telephone What are the 176mos lacking? Would they not "get" the concepts beyond calc and trig?
To your question: I'm not sure it is more rare. Instead, part of the answer is that there is no real difference in legal aclbility between a 175 scorer and a 180 scorer, never mind if you could tease out lsat aptitude gradations within the group of 180 scorers. Past a certain point, no one is writing better briefs or coming up with better ways to avoid tax liability based on novel merger structure because they had more lsat ability. For math, otoh, a 150 IQmo can probably contribute to research better than a 140 IQmo, in general. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:50 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake IMO it isn't something "innate" in terms of brain power or natural cognitive ability that they are lacking. This is like asking why most piano virtuosos are high iq but not all high iqs are piano virtuosos. Takes years of hardcore practice and study to internalize the vast amount of subject matter and huge library of compressed patterns. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50136392) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 7:52 PM Author: awkward clown digit ratio “utility” in this sense should properly be understood as the usefulness of a phenotype in helping to replicate itself. math savantism, imo, does not score very well in this department. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135996) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 6:29 PM Author: Angry place of business idea he suggested lol, no. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135823) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 6:44 PM Author: out-of-control vengeful school reading party Yeah I think so, just barely. (I think like 55% could do it, and you asked about 50%. I also only know about H, which is the less-impressive half of HYS students.)
The motivations of these two pursuits are so insanely different that it’s a tough thing to conceptualize. It’d make more sense to ask if they (the avg HYS grad) could be a second-chair musician in the Berlin Philharmonic or something. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 7:21 PM Author: vigorous elite jap stead 25% of the men and 0.1% of the women (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50135938) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:11 PM Author: bipolar theater There's a bigger work ethic / motivation component of this too.
Law school is a place for smart people who normal (and in some ways even "cool") can you chill out, go to class 10 hours a week, spend a lot of the rest of the week drinking and watching TV, and then make $250,000.
Math is truly competitive in that you're competing with 10 other math nerds who are all studying nonstop for 1 spot that pays $20,000.
It reminds me of that great article where a professor explained that a big reason there aren't more women getting phds in science is because women have the social awareness to realize its a shitty deal and don't have the autism to choose a brutal life of work and poverty just to prove to other autists that you're better at math than them. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:12 PM Author: Blue forum pisswyrm Couldn't even do top 500 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50136328) |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:21 PM Author: soggy curious abode In this thesis, we extend Manolescus and Kronheimer-Manolescus construction of Floer homotopy type to general 3-manifolds. This Floer homotopy type is a candidate for an object whose suitable homology groups recover Floer homology. The main idea is to apply finite dimensional approximation technique and Conley index theory to Seiberg-Witten theory of 3-manifolds. Another part of the construction involves a concept of twisted parametrized spectra introduced by Douglas. We also provide explicit computation for the manifolds S 1 x S 2 and T 3 .
vs rule against perpetuities |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:41 PM Author: up-to-no-good cobalt library corn cake Wow stable homotopy theory applied to seiberg-witten floer. Such beautiful mathematical vistas!
Was on math stack exchange recently and that was the sort of thing everyone was saying. |
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Date: September 14th, 2026 10:50 PM Author: soggy curious abode Manifolds of scholarly sweets! (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5903790&forum_id=2#50136394) |