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why isn't it possible to make a decent frozen pizza?
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:43 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort it just doesn't make sense how awful they all are, you can freeze real pizza dough and make a perfectly fine pizza with it, tomato sauce should literally just be tomatoes, there is no reason for it to suck, and cheese, like come on, you can't manage to put decent cheese on one? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358606) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:31 PM Author: Mischievous jade hall boistinker (Guy who does not live in tristate area) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358716) |
Date: October 18th, 2025 8:45 PM Author: Ocher deer antler why don't you just knock on my door you stupid fucking faggot (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358612) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:45 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort what? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358613) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:46 PM Author: Ocher deer antler (dickless cocksucker) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358614) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 11:38 PM Author: gunneratttt (gunneratttt) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358889) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:51 AM Author: Maroon tanning salon nowag (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359140) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:47 PM Author: rough-skinned station Whatever. Many are fine and quite tasty. Youre an effeminete decadent queer. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358617) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:53 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort name one, over the last year I have been hoodwinked a number of times buying various supposedly "fancy" frozen pizzas only to realize they are still just ketchup with a topping that doesn't taste like cheese (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358633) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:16 PM Author: rough-skinned station Idk my wife buys food cuz im not a faggot. I think its called connies. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358688) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:18 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort lol at having a wife and eating frozen pizza, I only consider this because I am too lazy to go out to get pizza (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358694) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:25 PM Author: rough-skinned station Try connies fag. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358705) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:47 PM Author: dull base need to cook the thing at extremely high heat on a conductive surface to get remotely decent crisp at home, and it needs to be pretty thin to begin with to get there. frozen pizza is a convenience item made for people tossing it in the toaster oven or microwave for a couple minutes. once you start putting in effort you might as well make something decent.
these products exist they are just a small share of the market because that is not the point of frozen pizza. people aren't buying pizza stones to cook their elios to perfection. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358619) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 8:54 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort what product exists that isn't trash? I would buy it, my point is the convenience shouldn't preclude being decent, I could make an english muffin pizza with ragu sauce and store brand cheese and it would beat the frozen offerings (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358637) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:02 PM Author: dull base "convenience shouldn't preclude being decent" in a vacuum sure but if you don't take care to get it crispy it will inevitably be shit, or at least you will have to acquiesce in appreciating it as a compromise frozen product. if you want "quality convenience" then don't get something that involves baking.
zuppardi's is a t5 new haven pizza place that ships frozen pizzas nationally since covid but for the price and hassle it defeats the purpose (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358653) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:04 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort I have no problem getting it crispy and preheating a stone, the issue is how fucking shit the ingedients and flavor are, and yeah getting a pizza shipped from new haven does defeat the purpose, why can't fucking digiorno just make something that isn't soaked in ketchup with cheese that doesn't taste like cheese is my question? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358656) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:12 PM Author: Ocher deer antler 180 tyft (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358682) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:06 PM Author: Lemon Dog Poop Background Story what english muffins do you buy to make "pizza"
ive tried that shit before and with the usual brands here its terrible, frozen pizzas are way better (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358660) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:07 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort I haven't done that since I was a child but the point is that was better than the trash I can get now, what frozen pizza do you think isn't ass? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358663) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:11 PM Author: Lemon Dog Poop Background Story the only one ive bought in the past 5 years is motor city. costco always has it and its not bad. a version of detroit style
i remember digiorno, freschetta etc being ok too but its been so long that i have no idea what theyre like now (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358671) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:11 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort godawful, just godawful (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358675) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:03 AM Author: razzle-dazzle gaping alpha ran here to poast this home ovens are nowhere near hot enough, and without a proper hot oven it is not possible to make good pizza (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359226) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 5:56 PM Author: apoplectic multi-billionaire office (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360406) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:40 PM Author: Fucking Fuckface Not true. You can use a pizza steel and broil it for 40 minutes to get it 550 to 600. Then crack the door just barely enough for the element to stay red hot for another 10 minutes it will really get up there if the rack is in the highest setting. I can cook homemade pizzas in 4 minutes flat this way, and it's better than most restaurants (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046207) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:07 PM Author: vigorous mexican church table 87 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358664) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:11 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort never heard of it (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358676) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:35 PM Author: vigorous mexican church you can find slices at whole foods (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360549) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2026 12:22 AM Author: Trip mint antidepressant drug ran into this old thread to post this (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49790588) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:17 PM Author: burgundy fantasy-prone tattoo business firm i really like imos and dogtown frozen pizzas. the cracker crust works well in a shitty home oven. but a lot of people hate st louis style even under the best of circumstances. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358693) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:29 PM Author: Histrionic topaz friendly grandma orchestra pit Why not just order pizza? Or go grab a slice (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358713) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:31 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort I don't live around italian trash where grabbing a slice is a thing, and I value the ability to just throw one on exactly when I'm hungry and not be at the mercy of retards who are going to bring me lukewarm pizza at best (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358718) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:03 PM Author: violent nofapping hairy legs if you don't live in an area where you can buy pizza by the slice, you're probably better off eating shitty frozen pizza, lol (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358780) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 11:39 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort thus my OP, duh (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358890) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:44 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate All frozen food is shit. Give it up mang (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358739) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:48 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort all mass produced frozen food yes, but you can make excellent sauce and freeze it yourself and will be great, why can't they do that? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358747) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:49 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate That’s the stupidest question I’ve heard in a while (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358749) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:51 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort how so? I could make a meat sauce, freeze it, and when I heated it back up it would be 180. I could do the same for dough. Frozen sweet corn is excellent. Lot's of things work great frozen (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358753) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:52 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate Wow that’s awesome man. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358755) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:55 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort so you acknowledge that a great many food products can be frozen to no ill effect and among those are breads and sauces, the primary ingredients in pizza? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358764) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:57 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate No. You are next-level obtuse. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358772) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 9:59 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort because I am inquiring as to why consumer products are purposefully bad when they don't need to be? Explain why no frozen pizza has a decent sauce. You could literally just freeze the sauce from any pizza place and it would be good, yet they insist on making it awful. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358774) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:01 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate This may seem random but it’s not I promise: what’s your net worth? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358779) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:04 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort how would having a higher net worth make questions regarding why frozen pizza sucks less valid? I obviously understand that getting a full new york pie for 30 bucks would get me better pizza but it would take 45 minutes and I cannot eat all of that so it is wasteful in the instances where I am lazy and want pizza (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358782) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:09 PM Author: at-the-ready learning disabled senate You appear to have 0 understanding of business or economics. I assume you are relatively poor. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358793) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:10 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort I know you can spend more for a frozen pizza than one from dominos and it seems like at that point you could match fucking dominos (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358794) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:26 PM Author: Ocher deer antler (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358816) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 1:47 AM Author: ponyboy curtis (If I May, tp) He's not asking why good frozen pizza isn't available at Tombstone prices, but why good frozen pizza doesn't exist at all.
If I can buy a hot pizza from Pizza Hut for the price of a mediocre frozen California Pizza Kitchen pizza, I should be able to buy a decent frozen pizza for a few dollars more. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358997) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 1:59 AM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort finally, a non retard in the thread, this is precisely the question, why ought I not be able to purchase the equivalent of a pizza hut thin crust pizza frozen? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359010) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:27 PM Author: Buff new version Frozen pizza with “meat sauce” and sweet corn sounds TTT. Maybe pizza isn’t really your thing.
Try frozen TGI Fridays apps, they are surprisingly good if you don’t microwave. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358817) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:34 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort my point is the process, you can freeze a tomato sauce to no ill effect, why can't they do that? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358827) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:06 PM Author: violent nofapping hairy legs It's hard to get the ingredients all back to the appropriate temperature from frozen. The bread touches the oven and cooks at a different rate than the sauce, versus the cheese which faces the heat element and needs to melt (rather than crisp up).
With that said, it's fine and you can actually get a decent vacuum sealed frozen neopolitan pizza from Roberta's or Table 87. You'll pay for it, but it's better than digiorno or whatever. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358789) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:09 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort this is the part I disagree with, I have no issue with the cooking or the temps, you can get the crust crisped up nicely on plenty of them, but the sauce and cheese are almost inedible and I think they could literally just freeze a can tomato puree and some store brand mozzerlla and do better flavor wise, texture really isn't that far off (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358792) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:26 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Range Lettuce once i started making homemade pizza from absolute scratch, 10+ years ago, hvae never looked back. Join us, op. Free your pizza mind. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358815) |
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Date: October 18th, 2025 10:35 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort I've made a few attempts but you need to ferment your dough overnight and that also defeats the point of having pizza in 20 minutes if you are lazy (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49358829) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:14 AM Author: violent nofapping hairy legs Make dough in batches and freeze it in deli cups. You can thaw those by leaving them out 3-4 hours or putting in a warm water bath for an hour (which will be needed to warm your oven up to 550 anyway if it has a pizza stone in it.) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359257) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:21 AM Author: Balding Locus Tank “Make dough in batches and freeze it in deli cups.”
Let me stop you right there hoss lmao (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359267) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:14 AM Author: Fucking Fuckface Frozen: mama bosso pepperoni
Hack: you can buy pizzeria pizza and freeze it yourself (let it cool first, then wrap in freezer or parchment paper). It lasts for 6+ months and reheats from frozen to 90% as good as fresh (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359105) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 5:55 PM Author: heady striped hyena trust fund Without a vacuum sealer anything turns to inedible shit in your freezer in under a month (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360405) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 6:06 PM Author: Fucking Fuckface Maybe if you're a dirty bitch with a bunch of gross, rancid air in it. Otherwise, you're totally wrong (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360428) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:15 AM Author: Territorial Contagious School Idk man why isn't everything frozen? Why don't good restaurants just make dishes in advance and freeze them? (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359106) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:36 AM Author: gunneratttt (gunneratttt) (alfred sysco circa 1952) (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359121) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:43 AM Author: Territorial Contagious School (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359132) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:22 AM Author: Balding Locus Tank (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359272) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 5:51 PM Author: animeboi (.) . (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360394) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2026 12:10 AM Author: Titillating Fuchsia Trailer Park Juggernaut (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49790573) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2026 12:25 AM Author: Trip mint antidepressant drug (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49790591) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:49 PM Author: passionate bat-shit-crazy den (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046246) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:22 AM Author: Balding Locus Tank (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359269) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:38 AM Author: gunneratttt (gunneratttt) costco motor city detriot style and french bread pizzas are quite goods frozen. as zarathustra explained a frozen traditional thin crust is difficult, but thick crust styles turn out ok (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359123) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:46 AM Author: Fucking Fuckface Motherfucker no it's not. I regularly buy tavern style pies and freeze them myself. They reheat to damn near the quality as when originally served
400 degrees convection bake directly on the rack for 11 minutes to reheat frozen slices (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359135) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:53 AM Author: gunneratttt (gunneratttt) "tavern style"
outed as chicagoan and pizza opinions can be safely ignored (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359142) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:39 AM Author: Salmon useless brakes corn cake Domino's is like$7 and way better than a frozen or a handmade garbage pizza. People should never ever discuss this issue again (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359124) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:55 AM Author: Maroon tanning salon nowag Digiorno’s is a fine pie. damn fine (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359145) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 7:56 AM Author: Territorial Contagious School Red Baron is a pizza style of its own imo why try to beat "fresh" pizzas (you won't) instead of just changing the game (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359148) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:22 AM Author: Balding Locus Tank (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359273) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 9:00 AM Author: Sexy arrogant newt dopamine The customer base is 100% people who can’t get their shit together sufficiently to order Dominos. Why would the product be good?
The correct answer is to plan 1 hour ahead and order a pizza when you want one. You can reheat pizza if delivery guy is slow or you have no one to help you eat it. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49359217) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 2:48 PM Author: Deep Swashbuckling National Frozen pizza is fine if you’re going into the experience with the understand that what you’re eating isn’t pizza. It’s something else entirely and not bad in the right circumstances. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360102) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 5:49 PM Author: Mind-boggling state son of senegal Digiorno etc aren't even that bad.
Anyway some of it is because of You. You have to know exactly how long to cook it and potentially when to turn/rotate it. Using a non-pizza-oven is already going to give you a questionable outcome no matter how good the dough is. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360388) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 5:52 PM Author: wonderful low-t associate OP really found a lot of autistic concrete thinkers with this thread. Very impressive. (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360397) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 6:10 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort and not a single one of them even attempted to answer the OP, they just flapped their arms and shouted "of course frozen pizza is bad" without any critical thought as to why that must be the case (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360432) |
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Date: October 19th, 2025 6:21 PM Author: wonderful low-t associate Sometimes a thread reveals how many people here are deeply autistic / ESL (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#49360451) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:11 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort update, just tried a di fara frozen pizza and I think these wops have cracked it, the crust was legitimately pretty good and the sauce and cheese tasted normal, finally someone listened (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046146) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:30 PM Author: sepia bearded bawdyhouse *flaps arms* Yeah but it probably cost more than $1.50 *blank stare* (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046184) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:32 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort it was 8 dollars on sale because it appears to be new to my area, but marked at only 9 full price, that's like a 2 dollar premium on a digiorno and I don't have to throw most of it away, I'm calling this a win for the kid (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046189) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:40 PM Author: Vibrant claret location messiness Yeah these are pretty good (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046206) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:40 PM Author: Vibrant claret location messiness Biggest issue is that most frozen pizzas are mediocre products that happen to be frozen (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046204) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:44 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort and this seems unnecessary, the di fara people seem to have heard my pleas and decided to make some money, the American impulse to make everything cheaper and bigger no matter how much it sucks is a cultural disease that must be wiped out (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046229) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:47 PM Author: Vibrant claret location messiness Pizza is also unusually difficult to preserve with the moisture in the sauce, cheese and crust all having to survive freezing then cooking. But this is still secondary to the main issue of companies just selling cheap slop that wouldn't be good even if it were never frozen (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046239) |
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Date: August 4th, 2026 11:57 PM Author: bateful bronze sound barrier resort See I disagree with the first point, fully agree with the second. Texturally plenty of shit frozen pizzas are good enough, I'm not expecting miracles here, but the absolute slop they make them with is unacceptable (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046266) |
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Date: August 5th, 2026 12:15 AM Author: metal electric spot faggot firefighter wow 180 thread. xo is peaking imo. 2025/2026 (https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5787606&forum_id=2#50046296) |