Date: July 12th, 2009 12:25 PM Author: cobalt windowlicker
It seems like with the growing latino population in Texas the state is going to vote more democratic. I know right now a lot of them can't vote, but they have lots of kids who will be able to vote in the not too distant future. So, will Texas become a blue state during our lifetimes. I think in about 25 years it will.
Date: July 12th, 2009 12:30 PM Author: at-the-ready tank house
Everyone always assumes that hispanics are monolithically liberal. This is certainly not true. Also, as immigration populations assimilate they tend to diversify in political views. The only monolithic population that I'm aware of are blacks.
Date: July 12th, 2009 12:37 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
Blacks I at least somewhat understand. They're not particularly assimilated into larger American culture, they tend to be socio-economically lower and therefore are naturally the ones who one would expect to vote D. But Jews? They're more like the exact opposite of that. Plus, the blacks and Muslims that love voting Democrat tend to hate them. And you would expect that they would love guns (but I guess they don't).
Date: July 12th, 2009 12:44 PM Author: cobalt windowlicker
wow, this really is amazing. Too bad a lote of them are going to get tax-pwnd with the expiration fo the Bush tax cuts and the new tax "surcharge" to cover healthcare.
Date: July 12th, 2009 12:46 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
Right. But they can't not realize that. It seems to me that Jews as a group, despite being successful, tend to be very left wing. It makes absolutely zero sense.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:09 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
Jewish voters have been Democrats for decades and will continue to vote for the Democrats. Vast majority of Jewish voters are coastal, social liberals. In addition, the GOP is heavily associated with Evangelical Christianity, which Jewish voters see as a much bigger threat to them than a percentage point or two on income taxes.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:11 PM Author: Magenta senate
Evangelical christians are the most staunch supporters of Israel, after orthodox jews. Any jew who cares about Israel and recognizes the threat of radical Islam, vote for the GOP.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:12 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
Evangelical Christians have their own reasons for supporting Israel.
Again, Jewish voters have been voting Dem for decades. I'd guess the vast majority of those voters case about Israel and recognize the threat of radical Islam. I don't know if you've noticed, but Obama has kept up the fight against radical Islam pretty well, just as I hoped.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:24 PM Author: Floppy incel chapel
Let's cut the shit man - if Dubya was in the WH right now but otherwise things had played out EXACTLY as they have in Iraq/Afghanistan over the last six months, can you tell me in good faith that you would be typing the sentence "We are making good progress in Afghanistan after years of progress. Iraq seems fine to me."
Being a liberal black man who is understandably fanboying the first liberal black man in the WH doesn't mean that all your fanboyisms are suddenly true man. And even if this is true, the fact is that your analysis of the situation is not exactly objective here.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:22 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
"Again, Jewish voters have been voting Dem for decades."
No doubt. The question is WHY do they vote against their self-interest?
"I don't know if you've noticed, but Obama has kept up the fight against radical Islam pretty well, just as I hoped."
I think its safe to say that he's going to be less of a supporter of Israel than Bush. I don't think Israel has had one of its big blowouts since he's come into office, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's pretty quick to condemn Israel when push comes to shove.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:25 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
Jewish voters believe voting for Democrats is voting for their self interest.
Obama wants more freedoms for Palestinians, but I don't think that makes him less of a supporter of Israel's security. He will push back against some of Israel's goals, but at the end of the day, they are on the same side.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:34 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
"He will push back against some of Israel's goals, but at the end of the day, they are on the same side."
That's the party line but I'm not sure I believe it. He wants to get in good with the Muslim world and its clear that Israel is a huge sticking point. Now, I'm not Jewish so I don't really care about Israel, but Jews do, so I'm pretty surprised they're not more cautious here.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:32 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
Actually, I have no idea what Judaism says about abortion. But there are just so many other issues that would affect Jews that Republicans > Democrats on, such as Israel.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:19 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
"Jewish voters have been Democrats for decades and will continue to vote for the Democrats. Vast majority of Jewish voters are coastal, social liberals."
Right, I don't question the facts. I question *why* this is the way it is. One would think Jews would be hardcore republicans based on the fact that given their history they should love guns, be fearful of the government, want low taxes, favor Republican foreign policy, etc.
"In addition, the GOP is heavily associated with Evangelical Christianity, which Jewish voters see as a much bigger threat to them than a percentage point or two on income taxes."
A) Much more than a few percentage points.
B) Why? Evangelical Christians are more of a threat than the Muslims and blacks that are in the democratic party that overwhelmingly hate them? And evangelicals fucking love Israel.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:22 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
1) The Republican party history has been antithetical to religious and racial minorities. Jewish voters see themselves as a religions minority.
Answer to b) There probably are fewer Muslim voters than Jewish voters, and Black voters don't hate Jewish voters. Evangelicals want to convert Jewish voters, which they see as a huge threat. Also, Evangelicals want typically want prayer in schools, etc.
TMF, again, you underestimate the power of identity politics.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:27 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
"1) The Republican party history has been antithetical to religious and racial minorities. Jewish voters see themselves as a religions minority"
What, you mean like generations ago?
"Answer to b) There probably are fewer Muslim voters than Jewish voters"
Is that even true?
"and Black voters don't hate Jewish voters"
Lets be serious here. Anyone who has a history in NYC will instantly note the Crown Heights riots, statements by many black community leaders, etc.
"Evangelicals want to convert Jewish voters, which they see as a huge threat"
That's not really relevant to who is in power. Its not like the POTUS does speaking tours at synagogues to try to get converts. They send missionaries in any event, as is their right.
"Also, Evangelicals want typically want prayer in schools, etc."
I don't think prayer in schools is a top 10 issue for anyone except maybe evangelicals.
"TMF, again, you underestimate the power of identity politics."
I don't. I think the fact that Jews vote Democrat is proof of the power of identity politics. But I really don't understand them as a group and I'm trying to get some insight. XO seems to have a lot of Jewish posters (including the owner of the board) so I was hoping someone could comment as to why this is.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:29 PM Author: Charcoal Supple Sanctuary
you can't find this that confusing, Jews are a minority, they identify with other groups seeking minority rights (in the 60's were pretty big supporters of civil rights etc.) that feeling that dems are on the side of minorities lasts to this day
I think most Jews think that evangelicals, despite supporting many of the same goals they do, are antisemites and will turn on them if it comes down to it
Date: July 12th, 2009 4:24 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
But they're a successful, integrated minority. It seems to me that they would be far better off with Republicans than democrats. That's what I don't understand.
"I think most Jews think that evangelicals, despite supporting many of the same goals they do, are antisemites and will turn on them if it comes down to it"
So better to throw your lot in with Muslims than evangelicals? I don't recall evangelicals wanting to kill them all off. Convert them maybe, but conversion is better than death, no?
Date: July 12th, 2009 5:56 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
The answer is that people vote on other issues besides economics, as they have done for decades in this country. That's really all there is to this debate.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:30 PM Author: Magenta senate
Your first point is wrong. Go read some history, man. The democrats were the most racist party for YEARS. They were the party of the old south, and one of the most racist presidents in history, Woodrow Wilson, was a democrat.
The GOP gets this reputation because of Nixon's use of the southern strategy and one speech Reagan made in Philadelphi, Mississippi, back in 1980.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:34 PM Author: Magenta senate
Goldwater opposed the civil rights act of 1964 because he believed that it went against federalism. He voted for every single civil rights legislations after 1964.
If I'm not mistaken, Nixon signed affirmative action into law. Do you have any evidence that Ford, Reagan, Bush I, or Bush II, were racist? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:35 PM Author: Charcoal Supple Sanctuary
that's not what i said at all, but the southern democrats, who you pointed to as evidence of the party's racism, did switch parties, at least at the national level, teh parties switched
edit: war on drugs is a pretty good example of a reason blacks migth find nixon and reagan to be racist
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:32 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
Of course Democtats were racist in the 1860s-1960 era. Then the parties switched. We all know our history here. No one cares. I actually imagine we may see a similar magnitude of realignment in our lifetimes.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:33 PM Author: Marvelous Painfully Honest Den Trust Fund
...and because Republicans have trouble running likable, non Alan Keyesish candidates who are black or hispanic. And because every time immigration comes up, there's a smallish wing of the party that makes extreme statements and alienates people who may have been considering it otherwise.
Date: July 12th, 2009 8:15 PM Author: stimulating mediation meetinghouse
The very existence of monolithic voting indicates that integration hasn't come very far, especially when you consider that many blacks are quite religious.
um, no, nobody assumes that hispanics are monolithically liberal. many think that hispanics could be courted successfully by repubs, but with the immigration stance and the treatment of sotomayor, etc. they are being chased to the dems.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:11 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
Fair, but at the end of the day, when voting in national politics, who is better on immigration issues for Hispanics, Ds or Rs?
The GOP shot themselves in the foot during the immigration debate; I still don't understand why they did that. They had a great thing going with Bush's outreach.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:12 PM Author: Magenta senate
It was mainly the extreme republicans like Tancredo, who advocated a really harsh approach towards illegal immigration. And notice that he did not get too far in the primaries. McCain was just as soft as Bush on this issue.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:14 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
But the issue is that Tancredo, Limbaugh, etc are your loudest voices and generate the most backlack. It's a party issue, not an issue any political politician has. Most of the GOP senior leaders are pretty good on immigration. It's the rank and file that creates the problem.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:16 PM Author: Magenta senate
Limbaugh has a lot of listeners, and he's entertaining. But liberals overestimate his influence within the GOP and try so hard to make him the face of the party. Last year, during the primaries, Limbaugh bashed McCain constantly on his show and openly promoted Romney. The GOP rejected his advice and chose McCain.
I'm not convinced, contrary to what liberals say, that the average republican is somehow more racist and xenophobic than the average democrat.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:23 PM Author: filthy step-uncle's house
"I'm not convinced, contrary to what liberals say, that the average republican is somehow more racist and xenophobic than the average democrat."
- You are convinced, but you need to convince the average black and Hispanic voter that the average Republican is no more racist than the average Democrat.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:28 PM Author: Magenta senate
No offense, but blacks are paranoid when it comes to race and think everyone is out to get them. They blame their personal failures on race and fall into the jackson/sharpton trap.
During the 80's, the number of blacks in the middle class exploded, but you'll never hear them say anything positive about Reagan. Meanwhile, they slavishly defended Clinton, a man who as sitting president committed perjury by lying to a grand jury.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:32 PM Author: Magenta senate
I agree it's hurting the GOP politically, at least for now. But the greater onus is on the black community to accept personal responsibility for their failures and actually address the core structural problems that plague blacks. Even after 40 years of civil rights and government programs, blacks are still the poorest racial group in the country and make up the biggest portion of the prison population. They really need to get their shit together.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:34 PM Author: cobalt windowlicker
all this talk about the GOP and race is a red herring. Blacks want government handouts. The GOP does not. It has nothing to do with race. Its just that one party is more likely to support their desire for free stuff.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:27 PM Author: Marvelous Painfully Honest Den Trust Fund
This is a perception problem, though. Even if the average Republican is no more racist than the average Democrat (which I can buy, given how many racist Democrats I know), Hispanics SEE the Republican party as being racist because of the loudmouthed Tancredos and Palins.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:20 PM Author: Magenta senate
Credited. Republicans don't hate immigrants or minorities; they don't like people who break the law, which is what illegals are, and those who get entitlement checks from the government.
FYI, republicans have no problem with asian immigrants.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:28 PM Author: Floppy incel chapel
No - what will happen is if and when this shift turns Texas from red to blue, the electoral system will finally be dismantled. GUARANTEED. White people - the majority of whom are pretty conservative compared to the blacks, jews and probably even the hispanics - will still be powerful enough to affect change, and they will NOT like the idea of Republicans never even potentially winning another presidential election again.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:35 PM Author: Floppy incel chapel
Tell the tens of millions of conservative whites in the Midwest "Hey man, statistically speaking the Republican party will NEVER elect a president again. The Democrats - the party of blacks, gays, jews and Nancy Pelosi - will control the white house from here on out, unless we get rid of the electoral college system and make the presidency a direct vote."
Modern whites may be beta compared to their forebearers, but I personally don't think they're THAT beta.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:33 PM Author: Floppy incel chapel
Flame, you actually think that they won't do that until TEXAS becomes a blue state? Are you crazy? I know it's popular to think that GOPers have IQ's in the 70's or 80's but the reality is that the upper ranks of the party, while fractured and confused, is just not that stupid. Even Bush knew the score.
If Texas becomes blue this will mean that GOP attempts to sway them have basically failed, and the GOP will be forced to resort to the most desperate measures to save itself.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:37 PM Author: cobalt windowlicker
by the time it will be too late for whites to do anything. Control of the country will be in the hands of minorities, and then several years down the line America will look like Detriot and Juarez.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:39 PM Author: Floppy incel chapel
yfwgi
Whites will still make up at least 40-50% of the country for the rest of our lives, dipshit. No one is sending half of the country to pogroms or something. And as control of the country slips further into the hands of minorities, I expect that there may well be a backlash - even among "liberal whites" - as the white population grows more reactionary and, therefore, conservative.
Date: July 12th, 2009 2:43 PM Author: bright hell alpha
Hispanics will vote for the GOP when the GOP flushes out the anti-immigrant trash like the dems did in the 80s
The political parties have survived many demographic shifts. They will adjust. When democrats have been in power for a while and become corrupt, probably sooner rather than later, they'll be tossed for the GOP.
Most people vote based on their perception of good governance, not ideology
Date: July 12th, 2009 6:18 PM Author: cobalt windowlicker
yes, this is disturbing. Especially considering that the whites there can see firsthand what happens to a city when blacks get in control. Whites in Vermont I can understand for being naive. But in Michigan there is no excuse.